Which is more meaningful to us in 2012: romanticism or naturalism? Defend your choice in detail and at length using examples from inside and outside of the AP classroom.
Bryce K. In my opinion both romanticism and naturalism play a key role in today’s world. As much as we look at the straight facts like what we see on the news and read about each day, we also enjoy looking forward and bringing a sense of hope into a world that is already so down. Even movies for example often start out naturalistic, simply explaining the story line but often end romantically with a good guy that saved the day or just a simple happy ending. As much as I am sure that we would all enjoy a world based off of romanticism I am afraid that we will never have as much romanticism, as naturalism. Naturalism puts the information in a straight forward easy to understand fashion, and gets the facts across that we must know. Sometimes hearing a news story blown up with useless information is just upsetting and aggravating to read. As for what is simply more important to today’s society, I would say that romanticism is more important but far less often expressed. Of course we all look for the romantic side of things, seeing the good in people and looking for some sort of story that is emotionally appealing to us. When we write, we often attempt to make things a bit more pleasant than they seem, or if not give a sense of hope that is not as often expressed by public emotions or even what we say but writing is one thing that may always give us that sense of hope and life that we all wish to have. Back to the original question, my thought is that romanticism is more important to us in 2012, however naturalism is the norm and what is most frequently created, written, or expressed.
Ellen M. In Response to Bryce K. I agree with Bryce’s opinion that both Romanticism and Naturalism are key parts of society today. Its always nice to take a turn to the bright side of things once in a while, but how many people are actually able to do that? Also, many movies and television series do not end happily. Just a last weekend, I watched a movie based on a television show. In the show, two girls were in love with one boy, and fighting for his love, but throughout the entire series and first movie, he showed no feelings toward either of them. In the last 5 minutes of the second and last movie of the series, the male lead died while saving the world, after just telling one of the girls he could not accept her feelings, and telling the other girl that he was sorry it took so long for him to tell her he loved her. The female lead that he loved runs into the explosion as he is dying, and the other female lead who was denied his love runs after. The movie ends, and the producers have declared no more movies will be made. I personally didn’t think that was romantic, upbeat, and cheerful at all; I was screaming at the television using words that may not be the best to mention at this time. As Bryce states, I agree that Naturalism is great for the news, and Romanticism is great for fiction literature, but in reality, Naturalism is indeed “the norm,” and not only more “frequently created, written, or expressed,” but also more influential in lives today.
Carly B. Naturalism is more relevant to our lives in 2012 than Romanticism. Our Naturalistic outlook on life shows that we do not look to nature to find truth in ourselves and that God is in every one of us; but that nature does not care and we do not influence it’s actions. Stephen Crane wrote about the experience of four men in Own Story. Those ordinary men fought through waves to get to shore, but as they survived one, another came. No matter how hard the men worked, nature did not acknowledge their hard work and change the course of the sea to help them. This naturalistic thought is similar to one of my brother’s experiences. He and some friends had made plans to go cross-country skiing in Minnesota at the beginning of January. As the date got closer, there had yet to be snow. Their reservations had already been made and they could not cancel, although they had already paid a deposit of three hundred dollars. Nature did not care about all the arranged plans they had made, it was still not going to snow. Romantics would have thought that nature had a plan for them and there was a reason for the lack snow in January, but the Naturalistic view of this circumstance is a more pessimistic aspect of the young men’s plan. In our everyday lives today, we no do not look to God and nature to find answers and the truth in ourselves and the world; but that we all determine our own fate.
I agree with Carly. Now people have more naturalistic ideas, especially regarding nature. Nature does not just give everyone a break if they have plans or have something they need to do, nature just happens the way it wants. Romantics would believe that nature would give everyone a break. They would believe that no matter what, if something happened in their favor, it was nature that made everything work out. Now, nature has no importance in whether or not we can do things, nature does not really have feelings. I also agree with her statement regarding looking into nature. Romantics believed that if you looked into nature and got to know nature that you could get to know yourself. They also believed that if you got to know nature you could know everyone else because everyone was connected to nature. Naturalists believe that you cannot learn about someone by just getting in touch with nature, but you have to talk to them and learn from your own experiences. You cannot just learn about nature and spend time in nature to learn more about yourself. Sure, you could think and have experiences that teach you about yourself, but just by "getting to know nature" you cannot learn more about yourself.
I agree with Carly as well. In our society today, people have naturalistic ideals about nature. in the sense that nature has conrtol over what it does and people can't change that, Nature just happens like it's supposed to. Romantics would think that because this one thing happened to set back someone's plans, that it was meant to be that way, and there was a reason why. They would believe that since it was nature, it was God sending a message to us. But now when there are any weather conditions we can still go out and do what we want, because we have the ability to do so. No matter what the romantics believed, I think that we cannt look into nature to find ourselves, nature does not have a little bit of "God" in everything.
Rylie W. In 2012, I think naturalism is more meaningful than romanticism. I think that Stephen Crane’s Open Boat really compares to a story that would be told today. Crane focuses on the horrors of the ship crew, and in a lot of books and movies today, the authors and writers focus on the bad things in life that happen because otherwise it is just life. In Batman Begins, Bruce Wayne is trying to be a normal man, but he is doing everything he can to save the world without being discovered. This is an example of naturalism because even though bad things are happening, they are happening to ordinary people, and an ordinary person is trying to save them. I think that the idea of nature being part of everyone and everything is long gone. Many people focus on the beauty or realism of nature, but nature is not looked at as being a part of everyone or the same as people. In Mary Oliver’s poetry, she focuses on the realism of nature and not the beauty or meaning. She talks about what actually happens, and not only the good things that happen. In today’s society, many people believe you have to learn about yourself before you can understand others, and for romantics, you could learn about yourself through either nature or others. Naturalists are able to learn about themselves through past experiences they have had and not through experiences with nature or getting to know others. Romantics believed that there was a little piece of God in everyone, and naturalists do not believe that. Naturalists believe that you can find God within yourself, but not everyone is born with that spark or piece of God in you, you have to search for it and find it. I think overall in today’s society, naturalism shows in our beliefs more than romanticism.
I agree with you. Your examples of Crane’s Own Story and Batman Begins demonstrate well how bad things happen to ordinary people and how they handle them. Nature is not the one to help them or solve their problems, they do it themselves. I also believe that naturalism is more rational than romanticism, and that many people believe that today. Like you said, nature is no longer being looked at as being apart of everyone. Stephen Crane implies the lack of importance nature is having on man in Open Boat. He states, “When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important, and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disappointing him…” (1363). This statement explains the thoughts that nature no longer cares about man. Unlike the romantics who believe that everyman is a part of God, which that statement would have been thought of as false because man is a very vital part of nature and would not want to harm him. All of these examples show that naturalism is better suited in society today than romanticism.
Lauren B. I think romanticism/transcendentalism is more important to us in 2012. The whole purpose to naturalism, to me, seemed to be a way to explain what people didn’t understand logically. In the 1800s, I think naturalism was used to show people what actually existed without sugar-coating it or anything like that. It was a sort of way to understand things back then, because they didn’t have the technology and science that we do today. But now in 2012, we have discovered a wave of new things that were unheard of in the 1800s. We know things in the realms of medicine and technology that people back then couldn’t even think of, let alone create. So, they used naturalism to explain what they didn’t understand or weren’t sure about. It worked back then, because it showed the rest of the population what actually existed and what did not. However, since our society is so much more advanced these days, we do not require naturalism. We know on a greater scale what exists and what could be (spiritually speaking). We do not need naturalism these days, because we already understand human nature and the world around us so much better than a few hundred years ago. Why then, do we need romanticism? We don’t need it, but it is more advantageous to us now than naturalism would be because it can stimulate our imaginations. It can help us decide what we think about the relationship between us and our surroundings (nature in particular). It can restore the spirituality that was prominent in the 1800s. I guess what I am trying to say is that naturalism was necessary in the 1800s because people then needed a reality check. We’ve got that reality check now, and we better understand what actually ‘is’ now. I think we need romanticism to catch up on a spiritual level.
Courtney W. In 2012, I believe that both Romanticism and Naturalism are meaningful. Many people in our world are looking for the higher sides of life, and with Romanticism they can achieve that. Everyone is looking for things that will make their lives better. In movies made today, you see how a lot of the romantic films a woman is having problems and she meets a guy and gets all wrapped up in him and her life begins to get better. Romanticism is the escape from the reality that we do not want to have. She loves to have that high, but then the movie comes into a more Naturalistic point of view. The guy is in an accident and is in critical condition. It brings the woman back in to the cruel reality of the world, full of pain and sadness. Naturalism, I believe gives us the dose of reality that we need. Because not everything in our world is coated in sugar and not everything is going to go our way. Naturalism shows how much we actually value our lives and do not base it off how we connect with nature. In Stephen Crane’s Own Story, he shows us how the four men from the crew were on the small dingy and the other men were on the makeshift raft hanging on by a rope, and they realized they were not going to live if any of the men on the raft pulled them in. They had to face the fact that they needed to cut the rope in order to survive. Most of them survived, and lived to tell of the horrors that they went through. This is why it’s important that you do what you need to do to survive, but you need to have a happier side to your life to help make it through that tough time.
Margaret G. I highly agree with you. With movies people want to watch today, teenagers and adults alike, there seems to always be a Romantic and Naturalistic plot. It’s almost too unbelievable if the woman was in love and happy the whole time because that’s not how life really plays out. The Naturalism plays a large part to create a conflict that usually comes together in the end and resolves itself anyway. In movies, without the harsh realities people face everyday, no one could relate to it, therefore it would probably become bland to watch. Even in Barbie movies and Dora the Explorer, there is always something terrible that happens that must be solved, whether it’s with the help of friends, or a heroic save all by one person. It’s hard to have a storyline without Naturalism and Romanticism together. If it’s all Naturalism, it might be too depressing. If it’s all Romanticism, it might be too sappy and fake. Together, I think they balance each other out.
In 2012, naturalism is more meaningful to us than romanticism. Stephen Crane's Open Boat and our own personal experiences really show this. In Open Boat, Crane explains the horrors the shipcrew faced. No matter how hard the men struggled to survive, nature did not acknowledge it and never changed the behavior of the sea for their own sake. Nature does not show any concern for humanity. We learn this throughout our own lives as well. When I was younger, my family made plans to go to a beach out near Palo. As we drove, the sky darkened, and we thought to ourselves that the weather would lighten up when we arrived. Well...it didn't. The weather didn't care that we had made plans, it just behaved how it wanted. We have no control over nature and its actions. In society today, everyone learns that that we control our own fates; not nature. Overall, I believe that naturalism is more meaningful to us than romanticism, in 2012 and the previous years as well.
Lauren B., in response to Clara P. I think it is also important to remember that there are more aspects to naturalism besides the tenet that nature is indifferent to humanity. That is a big part of naturalism, but by no means is the philosophy summed up entirely by that single belief. Your statement “we control our own fates; not nature” is the complete opposite of what naturalism dictates. According to naturalism, “[we] do not have free will”, and “external and internal forces, environment, or heredity control [our] behavior”. If you truly believe that we control our own fates, you would be arguing for romanticism/Transcendentalism. That is where the whole “man thinking vs. mere thinker” scenario comes from. A mere thinker (a naturalist, the way I see it) is influenced too heavily by his environment or heredity, but a man thinking (Transcendentalist) is himself dignified by his unique, individual thoughts. According to Transcendentalism, we can control ourselves and learn more about ourselves by observing nature. As naturalism declares, we have no will and are just “animals”. It sounds as if your argument revolves around the idea that we control ourselves, and that’s all we need to know. That’s an argument for Transcendentalism, as I’ve said before, but I think we need to consider more in our everyday lives than just our control over our own fates. We ought to consider always that each and every person deserves respect because we each contain a part of the Oversoul (God) inside us. (This is a romanticism/Transcendentalism tenet.) I don’t think a society should ever grow out of a desire for unity. I think romanticism is still more important to us today in 2012.
Chase W. I believe that naturalism is more meaningful to us in 2012, as opposed to romanticism. I can support this by two major reasons, above the various other ideas of naturalism. The first being, subject matter is comprised of daily life experiences. Looking at movies, T.V. shows, and books today, we can notice that the majority incorporate scenarios that most people can relate to, or may have even experienced personally. This gets the audience more involved in what is going on in the story or plot, and captures a higher attention. An example of this is the movie Marley and Me. Yeah that’s right, the one that made everyone cry, due to Marley the dog being have to put down. When I first saw this movie, I was automatically interested due to the comedy aspects, but this wasn’t all that drew my attention. The movie was very realistic, and something that most dog owners go through. When the puppy is first brought into our life, it is a great joy, but then come the hardships of training it and getting it to abide by the rules that you enforce. Then as the years progress, your dog tames down, and becomes very close to you, and you experience many things together. You develop a love for your pet, aside from all the hardships that you initially had to go through, and then comes the time when he or she is too old and may have to be put down. I can directly relate to this, when I had my first dog. It was my first pet ever, I had known him since I was born, and we experienced many things together, such as how he would always take my ice cream that I would get from the ice cream truck when I was little. We had been through a lot, and when the day finally came to put him down, my family was very sad, and this personal experience of mine caused me to be attentive when watching the movie, and at the conclusion of the movie I had remembered my own experience with putting my dog to sleep, and that same sadness came back to me when I watched the movie. This is one example how subject matter is comprised of daily life experiences. The second major reason that I believe naturalism is more meaningful to us in 2012 than romanticism is that the controlling force is society. This idea is meaningful to us, because it is very true and is what for the most part causes us to do most things. One example of this is how society has created the idea that pink is a girl color and blue is a boy color as well as boys play with transformers and action figures while girls play with dolls. From the day we are born these concepts that the society has developed are immediately put upon us, rather than letting the kids choose what they would rather play with or what color they want to wear. As soon as a family realizes they are having a baby boy, they start buying blue clothes, as opposed to pink, and vice versa. The same is done with toys. Nobody goes against this, we instead go along with what society has branded into our minds, because that’s what has always been done. Therefore based on how often daily life experiences are incorporated into movies, books, and T.V. shows, as well as how society controls us, I believe that naturalism is more meaningful to us in 2012, as opposed to romanticism.
Ellen McCauley Naturalism is more meaningful to Americans in 2012 due to our tendency to focus on the bad side of a situation, our focus on the middle and lower classes in society, and our ideas of determinism. Naturalism is based on pessimistic determinism, meaning our fate lacks hope, and the outcome of a situation will usually be bad. Many people I know today have become cynics, seeing the glass as half empty. Due to the many situations that American’s encounter in life—the poor economy, the job market declining, hopes for college scholarships and a secure future disappearing—Americans tend to focus on the possible, and in their eyes, very likely negative outcome of things. In movies, books, and even in every day politics, Americans focus on the middle and lower classes of society. In books and movies, the hero today is usually a normal citizen, if not, then usually someone who comes from a rough background, experiencing hardships in their life before or at the beginning of the story. In reality, politics also focus on these people. Americans mention the rich, but mostly when they are talking about how the taxes should change. Mostly, politics today focuses on helping the poor and middle classes have a better standard of living, better jobs, and therefore, money to spend to raise the economy. Lastly, some Americans believe in determinism, or our lives being laid out for us, without many choices. Certain branches of Christianity sometimes include some sort of determinism for us. A classic phrase also proves this point—“If it is meant to be, then it is meant to be,” or something of that sort. Meaning that if destiny and fate want something to happen, then it will, otherwise, don’t worry about it, because obviously, it wasn’t meant to be. This pushes out the idea of Free Will, where one would take hold of their own destiny, and force the event or situation that was “meant to be” into happening. Clearly, Naturalism is more meaningful to Americans in 2012 due to the tendency to focus on the negatives rather than the positives, the focus on middle and lower classes of society in popular culture and politics, and the idea of determinism.
Bryce Krueger In response to Ellen McCauley I can completely agree with what Ellen is saying here. She very accurately points out what we as Americans in 2012 do focus on every day. Things such as the “poor economy, the job market declining, hopes for college scholarships and a secure future disappearing”. There is no doubt that with all of these things happening within the world around us that we have to in some way shape or form become cynics, as Ellen has stated. Yes we would enjoy seeing the romantic side of things for once but it just very seldom happens. I’m sure that many other Americans such as myself have a rather difficult time taking grasp of the positives happening all around us every day. We dream for a better tomorrow, we dream for our happy ending, but when we wake up and face the world every day new challenges are thrown our way and takes our mind and simply drops it in the dark gutters of life, leafing us suffocating for freedom, and hope of a new world. Making a long story short, Ellen I appreciate you pointing out that indeed the world is very full of “cynics” and many others, who simply cannot see the positive or romantic side of things. We are surrounded by a natural world, so why would our thoughts be any different?
Alleigha C-G. I agree with Ellen. Societies view on the status of Americans is looked at from a naturalistic point-of-view. We often oversee the higher class and look for the negatives or as Ellen put it "seeing the glass half empty" when in all actuality we could flip that and think of the glass as half full. With this being said, I believe that society today is not just based off of naturalism though it does appear a lot. Even through the posts most of us write about what influences us such as movies and entertainment and even we miss out on little details and corporations such as churches and other beliefs that keep the idea of romanticism alive. When all else fails, we look to the ideas of romanticism to give us a feeling of comfort and to feel like everything is okay even if just for the moment (Spiritually Speaking). This is what leads me to believe that both Naturalism and Romanticism are both meaningful to us in 2012.
Savanna P. I believe that in 2012 both Romanticism and Naturalism play important roles in society. In books, television and movies the main characters tend to be ordinary people or even extraordinary people posing as ordinary people. They center around people that would normally be seen as insignificant which plays towards Naturalism but takes that insignificance and warps it so they become the most significant person in the world, at least while you’re reading or watching that particular piece. Thinking back to “The Scarlet Letter” Dimmsdale is filled with an utter hopeless grief for his sin because he cannot tell anyone about it. He grows weaker and weaker through the book filling the readers with his own hopelessness, a trait often shown in Naturalism, but then when he admits his sin and in turn dies Pearl accepts him as her father playing on a more romantic view of things. Similarly so in an episode of the 2005 series of Doctor Who the Doctor and his companions land on a planet in the midst of war and he is forced to use a machine that creates a female soldier that is technically his daughter who is later given the name Jenny. In the start of the episode he rejects the idea of her being his daughter because she is “born” with only knowledge of war and seemingly no desire to try and make peace, when the Doctor uses a passive-aggressive approach to try and make sure that everybody comes out on top. Through the episode Jenny comes to realize that she does in fact have a choice as to whether or not she kills anyone unlike she was “born” thinking and when the Doctor realizes it he is finally able to accept the fact that she is his daughter pulling in the more romantic view of things and allowing a more hopeful outlook that had previously been blocked by the seemingly hopelessness of the Doctor ever accepting her as a part of his life that had been projected throughout the rest of the episode. So all in all in my experience both the use of Romanticism and Naturalism have been shown meaningfully in today’s society.
Ky K. I believe that naturalism is more significant to people in 2012 then romanticism. Romanticism deals with emotion and freedom, to write and do what you want to. To always follow your heart and not what your mind tells you. Yes, we are free to do what we want and write about what we want, but in life you can’t go off your immediate perception of things and think you will be able to survive. More people in this world are characterized of naturalism. Like in Open Boat, the four men had to survive to stay alive and it’s the same way for people too. Not everyone has a good life; they struggle to survive sometimes not as extreme as in Open Boat. More people these days live in middle to lower class houses and are very poor. They have to go off what their mind tells them to so they can survive and to get through the struggles of life. People in those types of situations can’t go by what their heart says because sometimes it’s not the best decision for them. Also naturalism is more significant because nature truly doesn’t care about humans and we react to nature. If nature did care, there wouldn’t be hurricanes and tornados that go and destroy thousands of homes and kill people. When those situations occur we react to it, we are conditioned to take safety because at that time nature doesn’t care about human life. If we could control it there wouldn’t be bad storms; nature and humans would be able to be together. I believe that naturalistic views and the world today are more meaningful and significant even though most of the time it’s not in a good way. Even though most people probably want to live off of romanticisms views, naturalism is more real life and what people go through.
Hey bloggers, Ky pulls this discussion in a new direction for you. He talks about struggles to survive and not being able to do what your "heart says?" Can you relate this idea to Crane or Thoreau?
I completely agree with Ky on his ideas and his choice of argument points. I do think Naturalism relates closer to the everyday life, beliefs, and events that go on in the year of two thousand twelve. The idea that Naturalism is completely based on the universe itself, and no other spiritual figures and/or objects. As for his examples of people choosing what their head says because it is usually contains logic, self-control and keeps the individual and surrounding others safe. On the contrary, Romanticism is when one will completely look to what their heart says and follow it, and not really thinking about others! I really did like your example of Stephen Crane’s Open Boat and how they had to fight to defend and save their lives. (:
Joseph P. I agree that naturalism is more applicable to todays society, but I will argue that it may not be the best. While it is essential in today's times that the average man stays reasonable and work within his own limitations it is also important to keep the hope and possibilities of growth that the common transcendental would believe in. Following what your heart says may not be the best option, as shown by Crane's writings where characters who follow internal forces end up in demeaning situations. However, the transcendentalists show the dangers of not following your heart in their writings as well. The Dead Poet Society portrays a character who didn't follow his heart and reached the point of no return because of it. I agree one must be reasonable about their ambitions, but we live in a country in which everyone has the chance to grow to a better situation. I think people need to combine the two ideologies in order to follow their heart, but follow it within reason. The realist aspect of naturalism and the hopeful aspect of transcendentalism make for a very applicable and successful ideology during this day and age. I agree with your thoughts on the transcendental view of nature and how believing in the power of nature to an extreme can be detrimental to one's self and society. I also agree that many people today fit the archetypal naturalist character. I would argue, however, that everyone has the opportunity to fit the transcendental archetype and if applied correctly the beliefs can improve the average man's situation.
Liam L. I find it interesting that you talk about lower class people not having the option to follow their heart. I agree with you on this point, in society money can dictate a person’s actions and dreams. As an extreme transcendentalist, Thoreau tried to follow his heart and live out his dreams, no matter the cost. He did things such as “borrow” tools and neglected to pay taxes to live out his dream. Thoreau did things that people today would consider morally wrong. Those people got those morals from society, which may be exactly why Thoreau acted the way he did; he wanted to be an individual set apart from the norm established by society. People today are naturalistic because they won’t follow their dreams. We are held back by the morals or laws established by society. A person decides not steal something they want because of what others will think of them, they will be labeled thieves. I’m not saying that thieves are transcendentalists or that transcendentalists are thieves but I thought the analogy was good. Another thing I’m not saying is that societal conformity is entirely bad; raping, pillaging, killing, and burning are not good “trend setters”, some conformity is good. Overall we are naturalistic due to our societal conformity. Thanks Ky for starting this topic, I hadn’t thought of it that way.
McKenna H. In the current year, 2012, I believe the idea of naturalism is more significant and used more often than romanticism. Over the course of history, Americans went from looking to nature to explain life experiences and believing a small piece of God is in all of us with romanticism; to realizing nature does not care who or what your situation is and focusing on the reality of daily life according to naturalism. In Stephen Crane’s “Own Story”, he wrote about the dangerous and grim experiences of the journey through the sea. Crane went on to talk about the harsh waves and the death of his ship mate. If Crane would have written this story earlier in history, people would have focused on how nature planned out the waves, death, and other experiences they encountered. Now, with the idea of naturalism in play, people believe that you can’t stop what nature has in store for you. Not only is a naturalistic view displayed in “Own Story”, it is also demonstrated in present day movies and books. In the movie Poseidon, the cruise ship is hit by a massive wave and thousands of people die. Nature did not care about who was on the ship or even the damage it was doing. The only thing nature was doing was repeating the natural course waves took. Although naturalism is displayed in movies and books it also takes place in daily life. This past week Alabama was hit with many tornados in the dead of night. Some of these same towns were also hit by tornadoes and violent storms nearly a year ago. The first tornadoes to occur were worse; killing more people. Nature took its toll on everything and everyone in its path. The residents of Alabama could not explain why the tornados left them with so much damage. They just had to accept the fact that nature happened. Even though naturalistic views are commonly used throughout life now, romanticism is sometimes shown in movies and novels dealing with love and happy endings. In the end, I think naturalism is more meaningful and useful in daily life than romanticism. I believe it will remain that way for the time being.
Amber G In response to Mckenna H. I agree with what you are saying about nature not caring about humanity but we should look at how people react to these natural disasters to further explore naturalism. If you look at how people reacted in Own Story, Poseidon and other natural disasters you see recurring emotions and actions. First of all of these people are just ordinary people and would act as you or I probably would if in a situation such as theirs. All of the characters seem to be frantic at first and lose sight of hope quit often through their journeys. The people also tend to make choices in a near to death situation that they would not have made otherwise. I think that when you look at ordinary people and how they act to certain occurrences you can often find similarities. When thinking about this from a naturalistic viewpoint one might think this occurs because society is the controlling force. We see people acting a certain way that when it happens to us we happen to behave in the same sort of way because people’s actions are influenced by others in society even without realizing it sometimes. I totally agree with you that it seems as nature does not care at times and seems to be in differ to humanity, but in order to think in a naturalistic way we need to think about our actions and how we behave in society.
Margaret G. I believe that romanticism is more important in 2012 because a lot of people like to think about the perfect couple in movies or books and having that special someone or being able to relate to your own life. Like The Notebook for example, how two high school sweethearts die together and yet it’s sad because the wife has Alzheimer’s and can’t remember anything. We already see the harsh realities of life from magazines or television, and it gets so depressing, I think people start to get tired of the bitter and the real-life issues. Sometimes people just want to get lost in romance literature and forget about what’s really happening outside for a little while.
McKenna H. I like the way you supported your opinion in your post. Even though I believe naturalism is more meaningful in our society today, I agree with you on the points you presented. In a lot of chick flicks you see a dream relationship everyone wishes they could have. Such as the upcoming movie “The Vow”; how a married couple gets in a car accident and she loses all her memory of her husband. The movie goes on to show the beautiful struggle as the husband is trying to teach his wife about him and their marriage. Every day we hear tragic stories of the common man and the tough experiences they go through. In such movies and novels the common person watches and reads; they experience a mix of naturalism and romanticism. First there’s usually some type of problem that sets up the plot and then romanticism takes over the rest of the movie. Mostly focusing on romanticism the rest of the movie by relating to nature and looking to nature to try to find themselves. They also put dramatic love experiences in the movies and novels that the common person usually does not go through. Over time, I believe people sometimes get tired of hearing about grim events and want to experience some romanticism ideas which leads them to go to movies or read love novels. Although you said romanticism was more important, I still believe naturalism is more important and meaningful to us today because it’s used more than romanticism is. I still like the point you had brought up in your post though.
Alex S. Naturalism or Romanticism, which one is more meaningful to today’s society? To me, Naturalism seems to immediately pop out as the more prominent in today’s society. In our daily lives, we, as a society, tend to be more Naturalistic. We don’t study nature as something we can study to figure out ourselves, we study nature to try and figure out how it works and simply that. We don’t look at nature like a Transcendentalist or a Romantic would. But that’s not the whole story of our society. Look at some of the most popular movies from the past few years. Lots of them are about ordinary people in ordinary circumstances who then have an experience which makes them feel empowered to go do something. Take a few of the ever popular superhero movies. In The Green Hornet and The Batman series, the main characters, despite their vast amounts of money, are plain and ordinary people who want nothing else but to live out their lives how they please. That’s a very naturalistic outlook on life. But here’s the twist, they all start to fight against evil because of some twist in fate. And in the end they prevail over the evil or darkness and get the girl (there is always a girl). Now wait a second! Isn’t that very romantic of them? It is! Our culture has done something magnificent over many long years, it has changed. I see our culture as neither naturalistic nor romantic. It is a mixture of the two. Our culture takes parts of Romanticism and Naturalism and mixes them together into something different. We get the “ordinary” and nature being unrelenting from Naturalism and we get the power of mankind and the optimistic outlook of Romanticism. So, which is more meaningful? The answer could be both of them are of the same meaning to us, but the answer could also be that neither of them are of any meaning to us. It doesn’t really matter. We are allowed to believe what we want, and that’s another great thing starting to really emerge in our society and culture.
Maddy M. In 2012, my opinion is that romanticism/transcendentalism is more meaningful to us, but I think that naturalism is more common in today’s society. In a lot of movies like The Notebook, Dear John, or The Last Song, the story lines are based on realism, for example, in The Last Song her father has is sick and dying slowly and she meets a guy who she falls in love with, and in Dear John, the guy she falls in love with has to go back to war 2 weeks after being together. These themes are based on naturalistic ideas that they are normal people living normal lives but then the romanticism is brought in because both guys in the movies sweep the girls off their feet, and they fall in love even through the hard situations. I’m sure everyone would love it if society was more based on romanticism over naturalism, seeing the good in every situation and believing everyone has God in them, but the reality is that most people see the bad over the good in most situations. Many people aren’t looking to nature and God to learn about themselves and their good fate, many people think they decide their fate based on their own actions, not by God’s plan for them. This is why I think that romanticism is more meaningful in our society because people like to see the good in others and the good in situations and having the idea that God has a plan and good fate for everyone but most of the time the bad is what is seen. Also, romantics believe that you can learn about yourself by knowing nature, and in today’s society, you learn by experience most of the time, and that’s also what naturalists believe; that you can learn more about yourself by experiencing real life situations. This is why I think romanticism is more meaningful to people in today’s society, but naturalism is more common whether we like it or not.
Allison V. I believe that today people view Naturalism to be more important than Romanticism. Now days people are more realistic about situation and understand that life is not always “cookie cutter” perfect. This can be related back to many Naturalistic poets and writers who understood the good things in life, but also the bad things. Emily Dickinson for example could write about being in love but in her next poem the topic could be about facing her death. I think that many teenagers and young adults share these thoughts and can relate well to the whole idea of naturalism quite well. Now don’t get me wrong, I do believe that naturalism is the prominent lifestyle, however I also think that romanticism does still exist. The differences in these types of people are very different. On a personal level I understand that as much as I hope, things will not always work out about be perfect. I feel as if I know that life isn’t fair and that things will not always go my way. On the opposing side however I do think that if we learn about the world around us we will learn about ourselves. Although I do not completely agree with all romantic ideas, they do seem appealing. In my dream world I would always get what I want and people would always be fair to others. This however doesn’t happen and because of learning about naturalism and comparing it to romanticism I have discovered more about myself. It has taught me that I must accept some things as they are and that life is not always fair. Some people do achieve greatness, but others live mediocre lives. As harsh as it may sound I think that people need to accept that we can’t all be popular or have a lot of money. Make the best of your life and live it to the fullest because you only have one chance, so why not make it count?
I agree with Allison. I believe naturalism is more relevant to 2012 because it relates to everyday people. Everyday people are mostly realistic and know that things will not always go their way. I also read many of Emily Dickinson’s poetry and also noticed her variety in themes or subjects. Emily Dickinson was both a naturalistic writer and romantic writer. Her poems about love were more unrealistic and fantasy like. Her other poetry is mostly about nature, God, and life. This is where she relates to naturalism by mentioning nature, and writing about her life and how it was never perfect. My peers who are teenagers and young adults I think can relate and understand naturalism more than romanticism. I think this because we still have life experiences and have many mistakes to make and learn from. I also agree with Allison because she said if we learn about the world we will learn about ourselves. I do believe this to be true because past experience, getting to know other people, and observing my surroundings I have learned a lot about myself. You can’t control nature and what will happen in your life; therefore, I believe that you should take risks. Live your life to the fullest because you never know when it will end or what will happen next in your life.
Stasi K. Romanticism is more meaningful to society in 2012 because it is easily applies to everyday life while providing individuals with understanding and a more positive view of the world. The focus on emotion and the individual in romanticism can be seen throughout our lives especially when facing unexpected difficulties. Individuals tend to overcome these difficulties through optimistic thinking and the belief that better things are to come in the future. People rarely use naturalistic ideas such pessimistic determinism to overcome their problems because it does not give them hope. Since romanticism places emphasis on the individual rather than the surrounding environment it is more present in everyday life because it is easier for us to relate to our own emotions rather than trying to understand the naturalistic mysteries of nature. Modern films and novels often include elements of romanticism because they have greater appeal to the audience. Naturalistic ideas in Stephen Crane’s Open Boat contrast with the plots of modern films and novels because unlike Crane’s brief description of the struggling men in the lifeboat, today’s authors and directors provide the audience with detailed descriptions of the characters allowing us to better relate to the characters which often brings out our own emotions. Films focus on the characters rather than the surrounding environment and typically end in a way that connects to the rest of the plot. A naturalistic ending may not fulfill the audience’s expectations because the characters have no control over their future and events do not happen for a specific reason. Open Boat concluded with the death of “the oiler” which revealed the random actions of nature but most likely left the reader unsatisfied due to their lack of sympathy for the character. Modern religion also supports the presence of romanticism in the present because many doubt the theory of evolution and instead focus their beliefs on the idea that everything happens for a reason. Society has difficulty believing the naturalistic concept of individuals being powerless against nature, therefore many believe in an afterlife or that they will die when they are meant to, rather than randomly. The presence of romanticism in 2012 provides society with an optimistic outlook on the future which allows many to overcome everyday struggles.
Allison V In Response to Stasi K Surprisingly I completely agree with you on this matter. At first I really thought that naturalism was the way to go and that it was most common. However I didn’t take into account how Hollywood is always making happy endings and people still dream of being successful. When you really start to think about it you can notice how life is overall better when you are optimistic. It can really make you rethink what you once believed in. Personally I was being very close-minded and pessimistic. I didn’t really realize it until I read Stasi’s post. I appreciate how it made me reevaluate my life decisions and overall attitude. Did you know on average that 19% of people live longer because they are optimistic? That is just a number, but why not have a positive outlook on life? You only have one life and you need to make it count!
Hayley M. My response to Stasi, I agree with some of Stasi's beliefs of romanticism being more meaningful in 2012, for example in one of the most popular books of this time written by Suzzane Collin's is The Hunger Games which shows lots of swishy swashy between naturalism and romanticism. There is a lot of character development in the story that influences the ideas of romanticism. In the beginning of the story, Collin's brings in life stories and experiences from the characters so you can be emotionally attached to them and feel for them when ever they are in trouble. I disagree though with individuality having a big impact since in the book the districts are controlled by the Capital. The Capital changes the environment of the situation whenever they want since they have control of the games. Also in the book there is a lot of pessimistic thinking of whether or not the tributes will make it through the game. I agree though with optimism being a big role because that is what mainly got the tributes through the harsh events of the capital. In contrast though it goes through great detail of the horror and harsh environments that characters go through showing that The Capital has the authority and no one else can take advantage of that. It shows that the tributes are extremely weak and helpless when facing the The Capital. Romanticism and naturalism have a huge impact on the book but, which side does the book eventually take on?....You'll have to find out
Amber P. I believe naturalism is more meaningful to us in 2012 than romanticism. In our lives today we do not look to nature to make decisions. Nature does not care of the outcome of any situation we are put in. We make decisions for ourselves and nature has nothing to do with them. Stephen Crane’s Open Boat is an example of these naturalistic ideas. The men in the boat were trying to get to land but nature kept throwing wave after wave at them. Nature did not care if the men survived or not. These naturalistic ideas relate to today’s life also. Recently there was a tornado that came through Alabama. A teenage girl was found forty feet away from her house after being blown out by the tornado. This girl had her whole life ahead of her and she died. Nature did not care about the teenager or how her life barley even started. Nature took her life without hesitation. Another example is a personal one that happened to me recently. I was on a bus filled with show choir kids on our way to Illinois for a competition. At first we took the shortest way by going east through a winter storm. The bus driver thought he could manage getting through the storm but he was wrong. As we got farther east the storm got worse. It got so bad that the road was barely visible and we kept passing accidents left and right. Finally and accident happened right in front of the bus and we had to veer to the side to miss it. Nature did not care about the bus full of teenagers on their way to a show choir competition. Nature kept on with the horrible winter storm and caused a lot of accidents. The only way we made it to Illinois was by changing our direction and going south. This shows how we do not look to nature to solve our problems or to learn more about ourselves. We have more naturalistic views on life. Nature does not care about humanity or if humanity survives. We make decisions for ourselves and we do not look to nature to help make them.
Chase W. In response to Amber P. I totally agree with your points Amber. I find it extremely true that no matter what happens, nature is not going to care. Using your example of the show choir bus traveling to Illinois in a winter storm, nature did not care one bit. It’s not like the snow just stopped so you could arrive safely to your destination, instead the bus driver had to take an alternate route around the storm. This happens pretty much every day, and I can think of a specific example relating to my own experiences. I had just gotten out of driver’s education, about a week prior to driving by myself for the first time ever. I had to be to a sports practice this day, and it was pooring down rain. I mean I couldn’t see over a half a mile because it was just coming down in sheets! Even though, I still was expected to show up to practice. I remember gripping the steering wheel so tight feeling so nervous driving. My windshield wipers were going as fast as they could, but that still didn’t help the situation. I could barely see the car ahead of me, but despite this, nature didn’t care one bit. It’s not like the rain just stopped, allowing me to drive in perfect weather conditions, no it continued to poor, and I had to adjust my driving and time of arrival accordingly. This is just another example illustrating the fact that we indeed make decisions for ourselves, and have to work around nature, because nature will not work around our individual needs.
Allison J. I believe naturalism is more meaningful than romanticism in the year 2012. Naturalists tend to believe that you can learn about yourself from past experiences, as well as getting to know others. In Stephen Crane’s The Open Boat the men learn from one another because of their strong brotherhood. Although they do not discuss their brotherhood they all know what they’re doing is for the better, and they need to rely on one another. Naturalists also believe that you cannot control nature, and it doesn’t care. Naturalism is shown through this quotation, “Shipwrecks are apropos of nothing. If men could only train for them and have them occur when the men had reached pink condition, there would be less drowning at sea” (1356 Open Boat). I interpreted this quotation as meaning you can’t prepare yourself for nothing. The men in Open Boat can’t control the nature and waves around them. If they could they would have the hazardous waves occur when they were in the best condition. This would result in losing less people, but the men cannot control what nature does. If nature knew how much the mean were struggling upon the sea then nature may have let up, but in real life nature does not care. This is what naturalists believe. Currently in 2012 naturalism is more relevant to our lives because people learn from their past mistakes and grow from them into a better person. Romantics believe that everyone is born with a piece of God within them. Naturalists believe you must search for that piece of God within yourself because not everyone believes the same. You must take your life into your own hands, and determine your own fate.
Joseph P. Naturalism and Transcendentalism both contributed to literary works as well as society as a whole. Though both were relevant during there respective time periods today neither possess a strong impact on literature or society. That being said, I believe naturalism is more important because in a time where many groups and individuals live with constant struggle the tendency to believe in the symbolism of nature and a divine light inside everything has diminished from the romantic period of American growth and expansion. The advancement of technology has added to the separation from nature that isolates transcendental and romantic beliefs about the extraordinary qualities of nature and our surroundings. Another reason naturalism is relevant to the current times is the spotlight on the ordinary man. Transcendentalism stressed the individual and how every individual had a piece of the oversoul or a divine power inside of them. Naturalists point out the ordinary individual who acts based on instinct and external social forces. People are more likely to relate to an ordinary man than a soulful tree. Excusing the exaggeration the point still stands that naturalist characters are very relatable. However, this relation to characters causes a problem if applied today. The often pessimistic end for the characters can create a pessimistic view for today's individual or a society as a whole. A more applicable writing style today would be optimistic naturalism, where the ordinary character has a more positive outlook and has reasonable success. This writing style would appeal to the common man's logic as well as his hope. The appeal of naturalism today is its reality, but the downside is its spotlight on negative reality. Transcendentalists put a positive spin on life, but fail to play to the reality that most people today live with. Combining the two into a single literary style leaning towards naturalist's realism ideals, would make for an applicable way of reasoning that many could relate to today.
Trey D. In response to Joseph P’s comment. One quick thing I would like to point out is that you did a great job at explaining how naturalism best fits the present, but you really didn’t explain why it would be meaningful to us in the present. It is a near miss because you state how it would be important for people in today’s society instead of showing how much it would mean to us. Sure, naturalism is what we can most relate to; this makes it easier for us to understand it. But sharing these same principles every day and connecting them to ourselves has lost its meaning, so I don’t think it’s as meaningful as romanticism is today. Romanticism (Transcendentalism), can be put into multiple views today in which people value. Some people may value it for their love of nature, for example, people fight for preservation of nature and they find this more meaningful because there is very few pieces of nature’s true beauty left, considering now technology has led to the destruction of nature. Others value their jobs and education, although this is common and may seem naturalistic; they are valuing being a part that makes the whole. We are educated so we can have knowledge guide us together and lead the way, this also organizes humanity. Jobs are the arms and legs that do the work to keep us moving forward. In reality, we can also strongly relate romanticism to the present. But the difference is that romanticism has many more ways in which it can be interpreted. It is always positive, and people value what little they have. We have little thought of nature and haven’t returned to it, and most people don’t truly know themselves today. Naturalism is only a broad topic which we can relate to, but can only interpret in one way, naturalism is undecided. Wouldn’t you value the idea of controlling your own fate over having your fate be determined randomly without any control whatsoever? Romanticism can be interpreted by ourselves and is overlooked, and sometimes things that are easily overlooked are what we value most. Our sense of honor, education, and nature are overlooked until something bad happens. Then we get a constant reminder of what truly matters.
Whylie M. Personally in my opinion I believe Naturalism plays a larger role in today’s society. Naturalism is what has become acknowledged in our world, believing that no one is given a break from difficulties because they are experiencing a traumatic event. Nature has no remorse for human beings, and therefore Nature does not care. Stephan Crane wrote a story based on the idea of Naturalism which I believe has more of a connection to people today then Romanticism ever would. Stephan Crane’s story Open Boat is about four men experiencing the unbearable difficulties of being lost at sea. Every second experiencing a more difficult task to stay alive, fighting against large waves, having no supplies such as food or water, and the constant tease of temptation of life. Nature does not care about the fact that the men fought the entire way to survive and each time coming closer to experiencing death. Naturalism is experienced in everyone’s life whether people believe it or not. During Christmas all everyone wanted was snow, Christmas just is not the same without snow covering the ground. Each day leading up to Christmas morning I along with many others wished for snow, no matter how hard people wished though Nature was not going to make in snow to make society happy. Nature does not care what human beings input is on the outcome of life, Nature will do what it wants not depending on difficulties people experience or what people hope will happen. Romanticists would have believed that Nature did not produce snow for a reason; Naturalists would have realized Nature just does what it wants and try not to make it seem effortless. Life is difficult; it is not made to be easy, that is why I believe Naturalism is more meaningful in people’s lives in 2012. Nature will never give human beings an easy way out, you have to fight to survive in the world and define your future by working hard and advancing with the difficulties Nature throws your way.
Ben O. I agree with Whylie, although her post is centrally focused on how nature doesn’t care about us, I still believe it is very true. Many people use the weather to blame things on, whether it be a snow day, the fact that most kids haven’t had a “brown” Christmas maybe ever. People are able to blame this on nature, as if nature was punishing us for something and thus not allowing for there to be snow on the ground for Christmas so that people could have the so called “ideal” Christmas. Instead I think people should just take that as it didn’t happen, not because nature is punishing us, but it just happens. I agree with Whylie with how she described naturalism in the story with the men lost at sea, I believe that it is a perfect example of how it ties in with how people today use nature as a source of blame.
Weston S. In 2012 naturalism and romanticism are equally meaningful to us. Naturalism plays a key role in our society because most people don’t believe that nature can teach everything about ourselves and instead we live our lives knowing that nature will do what it wants when it wants and we control only our own actions. This idea of romanticism allows us to take more control of our own actions because we know we can’t control the rest of the world. In Stephen Cranes Open Boat he is able to show this by explaining that they had to do something awful which was to cut the rope and let the others die in order to save their own lives. Romanticism is also widely used in the news. For example, people begin to rely on their own intuition in order to speculate on upcoming political speeches. Naturalism is more apparent in the lives of everyday people but romanticism is used in more literature because it is more appealing to read about then an everyday average person. Naturalism is used to explain to us that we cannot control everything while romanticism allows us to use our own actions in order to control our environment. In today’s society everyone uses a part of each belief in everyday life. For example you think for yourself in order to either do your homework or to not do your homework if it was going to snow, which is using romanticism because you’re using intuition to decide. But we know that it could not snow if we don’t do our homework, which is applying the idea of naturalism because we know that nature does not care whether or not we do it.
Brady K. In Reply to Weston S. I agree with the statements made. I think our society combines the nice ideas of romanticism with the harsh realities of Naturalism. People dream of everything a romantic novel would give them, yet expect the realities of a naturalistic novel instead. People are more inclined to read romanticism because it appeals to their emotions and allows them to kind of get away from the realities of life. Although Naturalism is more closely relatable to our lives, the idea of romanticism is more appealing. In my honest opinion i too believe that romanticism and naturalism play equal roles in today’s society.
Ashley R. In 2012, Naturalism is a lot more realistic and useful than Romanticism when it comes to everyday life. The thought of Naturalism is the idea of Mother Nature versus living creations. Meaning that Mother Nature doesn’t acknowledge any living creation before doing something, or before an act is committed. But, Romanticism on the contrary is the idea of nature being courteous towards living creations, and considering them before a disaster or act is committed. It was believed to be true, but as time went on it had really come to be just an idea. Based on Hurricane Katrina, the two thousand eight flood and many other natural disasters that have occurred in the last number of years have killed and injured many people. It just comes to show that Naturalism appeals a lot more to our lives within this day in age. When relating to Stephen Crane’s short story, Open Boat it shows multiple signs of Naturalism with the different struggles they faced. For example, as one wave would come and the sailor’s would defend themselves and fight through it. Right after, or just a bit later another unexpected wave would come and they would have to do the same thing all over again! Quite a few times the Captain had repeated a specific quote about drowning, and had made mentions of the “…seven mad gods.” The quote had expressed him wondering why he wasn’t taken at the beginning of the voyage versus having to go through the ups and down, struggles and multiple hardships. It comes to show that Romanticism has no relation with the twenty first century versus Naturalism being fully relatable to the twenty first century and especially, the year 2012.
For 2012 I feel that naturalism is more meaningful to us. We do not look in nature to find the truth of things, but rather we look in ourselves. Stephen Crane wrote about the hardships that four crew members had to face in their journey to get to shore. Each time they would push through a wave a stronger and bigger one would come and push them away. Nature did not care how hard the men had to try to get to shore; their struggles were not seen as important. Nature did not change the harshness of the sea, merely because it did not care. In today’s society we do not look to God or in nature to find answers, we look within ourselves to set our own destiny. Naturalism is based on the life of an everyday person and how they set their life up for their own fate. Each day a person lives through the reality of what their life is going to end up like. They do not live in the now, but live in the sense of how they will plan their future. Romanticism would believe that we should seek truth in God and through nature and how people should live in the now. But for life right now, many people don’t base their life on these things; but they do on the decisions they make now, in order to plan out their future. Today people think ahead to get a sense of what they want, picking a career and planning out your courses is an easy example of how we do so. Overall I believe that Naturalism is more meaningful to us today, just in the sense that we are the ones that lay out our destiny.
Michelle Z. Reply to Emily B. I like how you described both naturalism and romanticism so that they were clearly stated to people so it helped prove or define your point more. I think that both of Crane's writings the Open Boat and Own Story also highlight a few other points which is that when people are in the moment and the here and now they don't necessarily think out every move to have a smooth future so that would be why naturalism is more common today. The example is that when the men start about filibustering it says how "the most stolid brain could contrive to believe that there is not a mere trifle of danger in filibustering" showing that even the most level headed emotion-less person could believe there might not even be the slightest bit of danger in filibustering. Although there is almost always a risk in everything that everybody does but people with a naturalistic mindset don't always look for every crack in the road but rather to choose to go with the flow and see what happens rather than being a worrying worry wort who spends their life trying to find every thing wrong with the world and perhaps even their selves. The people who constantly predict when the world is going to end, those would be the people who are classified as worrying worry wort’s who let the way nature acts and the way the world and atmosphere in general react to normal life effect their life and in essence try to effect or change our lives.
Alleigha C-G. Due to how society is today, in my opinion, naturalism is more meaningful rather than romanticism. We see naturalism in everything from movies to our local news stories. I believe our society today favors naturalism because it gives straight forward facts without sugar-coating any information or making, what some would call, excuses as to why things happen or why things are the way they are. These ideas are often found in romanticism in situations concerning emotions. In movies we often see scenes where it will be raining and a person will be crying and are distraught; in a romantics mind nature, in this case it's the rain, played a role in the reason behind the person that is crying. When it comes to naturalists, however, the weather played no role and had no affect on this action, it was merely a coincidence. With this being said, naturalism provides the life like and everyday situations that we can relate to which peaks our interests and grabs our attention. Furthermore since most movies today are based on naturalistic ideals and we watch these movies for our own entertainment, subliminally we can take what we see and apply it to our lives because it peaks our interest so much. Although I would have to admit our society has adapted to naturalistic ideals, I do believe that at the same time we incorporate romanticism through our personal beliefs whether it be a higher power or just our own superstitions that directs our curiosity to why certain situations happen.
Amber G. In 2012 I believe that naturalism is more relevant to our lives than romanticism. I think that we look at nature as in differ to us. There are a lot of people who enjoy nature but I don’t really think they go out and look at trees and animals for hours and learn about themselves. We see ourselves as superior to nature. We are destroying everyday by the way we live and most typically don’t stop to think about. Although we aren’t helping nature there are ways it doesn’t help us either. It sometimes acts in unfair ways. For example in open boat nature seems to be working against the men. As they survive one struggle another and things start to look up another struggle comes along sucking all hope from the men. Nature did not care about how hard the men were working or about how tired they were. In the end when the last wave saved them nature was sort of working in an unfair way. The oilier was probably the hardest working one but yet his life was the one who was taken, just doesn’t seem fair. I see this happening today with things like hurricanes, earthquakes and other natural disasters occurring and destroying whole communities and taking hope away from hundreds of people. Nature does not care who you are it just happens. I also thing we show the beliefs of naturalism through the way we think. Society is very lazy today and we would rather be feed the answers than go out and look for them on our own. In school we just read textbooks and believe everything that’s in there. I never really been in a class room like Mr. Keating were he truly forced his students to think for themselves and took them way out of their comfort zones. I think today that we don’t look to nature to answers because there are so many other resources out there for us to use now that just give us the answers instead of us actually having to search for it. Overall I think we express more beliefs of naturalism than romanticism in today’s society.
Arianna T. In my opinion romanticism/transcendentalism is more important to us today. I feel like naturalism was just their way of explaining how things are and how they will be before they had any of the technology that we have today. I don’t think that naturalism is really needed in today’s world, with the technology and knowledge that we have gained, naturalism just seems unnecessary. It may have worked back in the 1800s when they thought that that was the answer or when they just had no other explanation. We now need something as advanced as we are in 2012 and that’s where romanticism fits in. Romanticism from how I interpret it to be that we may have the same roots, all grew up in the same place, treated equally but that doesn’t make us the same. We are still as unique as a snowflake — no two alike and we should keep true to that. With naturalism I fell like its centered around heredity and social environments that you were in that defined your character. There was no you being you, it was you’re the great grandson of Albert Einstein so you must be like this or you’re of a high social class so you must be like that. Naturalism was the wake up call and now that we are awake we need to get our priorities straight spiritually, with nature, or with people using romanticism. The transcendentalist thought that in order to better understand ourselves we need to study nature still holds true today. It works the same way if we want to understand nature; we just need to study ourselves. If we wanted to understand ourselves not through nature, but through the people we surround ourselves with, that would work also. I guess what I’m trying to say is that now that we have the knowledge from naturalism we need to offset that with spirituality, in this case romanticism/transcendentalism.
Ky K. I like how you think that we should find ourselves and be ourselves but to change what everyone is use to would be hard. Society has gone on for hundreds of years on naturalistic views, and people think its normal now. So trying to change everyone and yourself to think different is hard if that’s all you’ve known your whole life are the naturalistic ways. Romanticism has you look deep inside yourself to try and find the true you, but to be honest people like simple. Most people want quick and easy, straight to the point, but romanticism makes you think and go deep in your heart. And I don’t think that people do that in society today and I don’t think that it will change. There are a lot of people that struggle to survive and they try to keep their dignity by trying to go to work and support their families to have a good life. People don’t really have the time to dig deep and think from the heart and find themselves. We go off of what society gives us I think because that’s what were accustomed to.
Maddy M. In response to Arianna T. I like that you talked about how you think that people are viewed based on heredity and the environments around them and that if someone is in a high social class that’s how people define them as a person. I believe society does this to everyone; society creates a standard or "look" almost, and if you don't meet the standards then people sometimes act like you aren't good enough. So I agree with your thoughts about that. I don't agree with when you said naturalism is almost unnecessary because to me naturalism plays a key role in today's everyday life. It keeps times simpler, and states the facts straight forward. Like Ky said, I don’t think people could just switch their thinking when naturalism has always been a part of our lives. It’d be too hard to do and it has become a norm in our society. I also think people like naturalism better because also like Ky said, people have busy lives, and romanticism requires you to take the time to look deep inside yourself and to nature to know more about yourself, naturalism is straight to the point and you can learn through past experiences in your life. Personally, I think I’ve learned more about myself in the 16 years that I’ve been alive by going through my life and experiencing good and bad times. I almost wouldn’t know how to look inside myself or to nature to learn about myself. I think you learn through experience because it teaches you lessons and makes you stronger as a person. I think both romanticism and naturalism are important to today’s society in 2012, but I think naturalism plays a bigger, more important role in our daily lives.
Liam L. Our culture leans heavily towards naturalistic views. In a naturalistic view, everything has an unfortunate outcome. Naturalists could argue that there is no “happy endings”. Popular media such as music and TV shows express the idea that life has an overall, unfortunate ending. The media expresses the idea that we should take advantage of today because tomorrow is a hopeless reality that may or may not occur. Many music artists sing of partying and not thinking about tomorrow because the future has seemingly nothing to offer them. In Kid Rock’s song, All Summer Long he sings, “Sipping whiskey out the bottle, not thinking ‘bout tomorrow…” Kid Rock chooses to live in the present because the future has nothing to offer him. These ideas are not purely naturalistic, as expressed in the movie Dead Poets Society, seizing the day is the main idea of romanticism. Although romantics believe in taking advantage of the present, they do not have the grim outlook on life that the naturalists do. Our society is less romantic because of our hopeless outlook on life. Another cultural trend that points our society toward naturalistic ideals is our view of the individual. In our society, people are described by their occupation. The transcendental idea of “man thinking” is completely out the window. If someone was to describe me, they would say “he is an engineer”, they would group me into a category of people that I share similar attributes with. My qualities that make me an individual are completely disregarded. Our society focuses mostly on the whole and less on the individual; our society is naturalistic in this way.
I agree that in many instances, many songs and movies and all over the media, there are a lot of naturalistic views on "unhappy endings." But to say most is a little far fetched in my opinion, for I believe it is somewhat even. How do economists, business people, and all of the other 'financially smart' people go about life when looking at these two movements? 'Most' will say they are of romanticism, because they invest in the future, they focus on self-improvement in hope of a great life, they think not of the present, but what is to come. But yes, many celebrities can be seen as 'naturalists,' because in 'most' cases they are not financially smart, they blow their money because they have it to throw around and talk to the media about living it big now while they have it, and while they're still alive, "because they do not know if there is a tomorrow," but this 'blinds' them because they do not look into their future and do not focus on self-improvement, but rather self-want. And remember, the celebrities, the media, the stars and the rich only account for a small percentage of the overall picture, so you have to account for the whole when determining if "most" leans one way or not, for "most" of the whole which are not rich, are not celebrities, are not surrounded in nothing but wants and desires, have to focus on self-improvement and ideas that will establish and build a base for them, for what is to come, as they look into the future with high hopes of living as long as they can. Today in age, 2012, we are economically struggling, so the world is of both romanticism and naturalistic views, combining both hopes and the lack of, for a better future, for a better life, and for a better present.
Alex S. Reply to Liam L. I agree with you on a few of your points, Liam. Our society does look at a person by his occupation and gives him stereotypes. Even in high school we see the classic jock, nerd, etc. stereotypes and we give people certain attributes as seen fit. This fits in with Naturalistic ideals. But I disagree with you when you talked about how our media portrays bad endings or bad outlooks. Look at almost every Disney movie or sitcoms. They almost always portray a happy ending where everything works out or will be worked out in the near future. In especially a lot of Disney’s animated movies the problem is always solved. In Tangled, Rapunzel figures out what the lights mean and takes her place in her real family. In Wall-E, he saves the plant sample and the humans go back to Earth to try and start over. These are just a few of the many examples from Disney. These movies end with the optimism of Romanticism instead of the Naturalism that you said and I feel they make up a larger majority of the total movies out there. When you were talking about our music I partially agree with what you said. But I’m sure you can find as many positive songs that are optimistic and look out into the future as you can find songs that are negative or have a here-and-now kind of feel to them.
Ben O. I think that it is hard to say whether naturalism or romanticism plays a larger part in 2012. Personally, I believe that they both play a critical role in society today, straight to the point facts, mixed in with religious beliefs, and other general beliefs. I believe that in the stories we read in class that they used both naturalism and romanticism to describe things that they couldn’t explain on their own. Some people use romanticism in 2012 to blame things on nature, maybe the weather ruined plans, many people blame the weather, or ask god, “why me?” but from a naturalists point of view they don’t believe that god has chosen for the weather to interfere with whatever someone had planned that was ruined by the weather. Although I think some people find it nice to be able to blame something, naturalism seems to clearly define life that doesn’t bring in outside opinions and influences. With so many different opinions of influential people in 2012, and with famous people acting as role models for young people, I think that being a “man-thinker” would be more beneficial in today’s society.
Whylie M. Naturalism plays a more important role then Romanticism does in 2012. Naturalists may blame Nature on affecting plans they intended to do but while they may focus their difficulties on the fact Nature does not have an interest in their plans; Romanticists believe that everything just happens for a reason. A reason in which God planned for previous activities to end in disappointment. Romanticism is no longer common in today’s world believing everything happens for specific reasons, which is because lately the world has been accustomed to disappointment and disaster. Therefore people do not believe that things happen for a specific reason because what is the reason for constantly being disappointed and having the world continually witness disaster. Many people have devalued the idea of Romanticism and began to believe in Naturalism because it is an easier idea to believe in. Naturalism shows the way people are enslaved in following the rules of society and accepting that Nature will bring difficulties and they have to overcome them in order to survive. Naturalists belief that fitting into society will be the closest way of survival because without Romanticism people will no longer believe in everything happening for a reason. And human beings will start following the ways of Naturalism because they now know working hard is what leads to accomplishment not the belief that whatever happens, just happens because it was suppose too.
Emily R. Reply to Ben O. I agree that naturalism and romanticism play almost equal parts in the reality of 2012, and I agree that naturalism can interfere and that people find some sort of blame. It’s just like how my aunt could have her wedding outside, on what seemed like a nice day but then it rained. She was not so happy but obviously as ordinary people we don’t have much control about what happens. Although she blamed it on some poor reason, I agree with your statement that naturalism doesn’t pick and choose whose parade to rain on. However to say that all people could benefit from being a “man-thinker” is merely an understatement and that people just need to realize that they have to be smarter than the concept of naturalism and plan accordingly.
Emily- I’m not sure what you mean by people “just need to realize that they have to be smarter than the concept of naturalism and plan accordingly.” Don’t limit your interpretation and understanding of Naturalism to nature being indifferent to humanity. If Crane was writing the story of the sister’s wedding, what would Crane focus on in his story? What would Crane want to exam?
Michelle Z. I believe that naturalism is more common in 2012 because of the fact that people can be noticed and receive possibly even more recognition or notice for doing things. The recognition doesn't necessarily have to be for something good, because typically people see the mistakes people make before the good they have done. People typically assume that those who do such great things could never possibly do anything wrong, which isn't true because there is no person in the world who hasn't made some form of a mistake. Those who are richer or well known are those who are typically talked about and judged and held to a high standard, while those who are less wealthy and unknown are still in our society judged and talked about because of people's ignorance to ask simple questions. This is shown in the Red Badge of Courage by Stephen Crane where Henry rather than ask the tattered man's name continues to call him the tattered man. Henry also demonstrates naturalism in that he talks about whether or not he will make it back home from the front line and continually thinks that the only way to have courage is to become injured even though he fears death. An example from personal knowledge and the most simple learning of naturalism as a child was the story about the tortoise and the hare. The hare has an over abundance of self confidence and believes that he will win the race because of his speed. He obviously wasn't aware of the saying slow and steady wins the race which in turn is true in the story as the tortoise continues to go even when the hare decides he will have time to take a nap and does so. In the meantime the tortoise who hadn't bragged about winning went at his own slow and steady pace and won the race. Essentially what it means is that in today's day and age people young, small, insignificant or significant is noticed and recognized by people and they might not even be aware of it.
-Calese C. I agree with Michelle's remark in a way. I agree that Naturalistic beliefs have become more common than when it first started but I still believe that Naturalism and Romanticism are used equally in society today. For example, some views are made more public than others and that is why so many people think that Naturalism is the most common belief today. Romanticism and Naturalism, however, are used on a daily basis whether we recognize that we use it or not. Naturalistic views can be seen anywhere from books to TV shows and so on and so on and that also includes Romanticism as well. The ways we see the world today are based off of both of these views. This is why I think that both are used frequently today and that there are certain ways to make one way seem more popular than the other.
Madelyn I. I would have to say that romanticism is more important in society when compared to realism. Yes, some things in life just happen that we really can’t explain. When something out of the ordinary occurs, people with a realistic point of view see it as just pure luck. The idea that nature really doesn’t care about what people are going through may be true in some cases. But does life really have to be man vs. nature (the universe)? Our society is generally driven by hope. If something bad happens to us, we want to believe that something or someone out there WILL help make things better. All of the pain and struggle that we endure in our lives is not going to waste. Regardless if romantics are right or wrong, our society is comforted by the fact that everything can happen for a reason. Some of the ideas that romanticism possesses include, imagination, emotion, symbolism, and the freedom of expression. One could argue that movies in the 20th century are mostly based off of romanticism, for example, Forest Gump, Titanic, Cinderella, etc. Nature has symbolic meaning in movies as well. Movies are a common interest that our society shares. Considering that romanticism is seen in most common movies, it is safe to say that romanticism affects our society.
Stasi K. I agree with Madelyn’s argument that most modern movies do a good job conveying romantic ideas present in today’s society. Although naturalism is also present, romanticism has a larger impact on the viewer because it includes “imagination, emotion, symbolism, and the freedom of expression.” The film Titanic is an excellent example of why romanticism is more meaningful to society. The plot mainly focuses around a naturalistic event of nature carelessly causing an “indestructible” ship full of people to sink, however, the audience is intrigued not by the event, but by the characters’ love for each other and their hope for survival. As Madelyn stated, individuals often find comfort through the belief that everything happens for a reason. The audience’s sympathy for Jack and Rose makes it difficult for them to believe that Jack’s death was a random act of nature, even though this may not be correct it supports the importance of hope in society. The common use of romanticism to overcome conflicts in our lives can be seen in many modern films because the viewer is able to relate to the character’s struggles and use optimism to interpret the ending.
Lukas A. @Madelyn I. I agree with most of what you have to say about romanticism and its importance to the mental stability of people. Without romantics, the world would be a sullen place. However, some people wish to see the light, even if it's not as bright as they thought it would be. Some people are forced to see it, like how a late sleeper is dazed by the bright sun as the curtains are quickly tossed to the side to let the morning light rush into the room. Just as how Crane had seen the truth only after several tragedies tore down his wall of romantic ideas of which most people were raised. After the deconstruction of his thoughts, he gathered the bricks and laid a new wall. One that, although wasn't the prettiest thing to look at, was the toughest wall he could lean on for support. In naturalism, there are no expectations, so there are no let downs. People won't expect to get lucky, or hope to catch a break. When there is a tornado, people wouldn't blame anything, they would just pick themsleves up and start the cleanup. We would be come a hardy people, those who could bounce back from most things, and who would be worried of the preparations to save them from life. All this, with only one cost: our innocence. I think that in the end, both naturalism and romanticism should be held as high, for although the world needs to know the truths about nature, it is a good thing to be able to have peace of mind at the end of the day.
Trey D. From what has happened in the near past and has continued till the present, romanticism is more meaningful to us. Some people decided to stick with the everyday schedule, while others have gone the extra mile to save, think, and to teach their beliefs on nature. Naturalism is really just a main theme we see every day, therefore we don’t value it as much. With the advancement of technology we have improved communication greatly, and as a result of this, our society has set a focus on more social issues. Socially we are a very naturalistic society; we believe that other social influences change our character. For example, we have always been taught by our legal guardians that we aren’t supposed to be friends with troublemakers our persons with unattractive personal qualities because the way they act will rub off on us. I agree that this is true, but I don’t think that to myself often and appreciate it. It is hard to find something meaningful in the harshness of the reality that is naturalism. In the past, there wasn’t the fully developed and understood human unity that we have today so they used naturalism as a scapegoat so they could say that what happens is almost completely random and uncontrollable. I listened to a speech recently about romanticism and that person’s strong beliefs against naturalism. It was very convincing in the fact that humans always value the things that they rarely do or obtain. When something is rare it has value. With urbanization continuing, true nature disappears and we hardly spend time camping or listening to the wilderness that surrounds us. It is very rare that we take the time to do these things outside of the normal scheduled world, so we learn to appreciate it, and respect it. In 2012, society has accepted the romantic theme but has not embraced it fully, which makes romanticism more meaningful to us now than naturalism.
Kelli K. Though naturalism is more common to individuals in their daily lives, do all people really appreciate the romanticism in the world? Yes, there are a large group of people who do truly see the beauty when it is around, but yet, there is still a large portion that do not. With the fast pace in today’s culture and society, not many will take the time to stop and view their surroundings. There is always something to learn and observe no matter where you are. However, taking that time to actually stop and see that beauty is not easy for everyone. Personally, with all of my activities I participate in along with my school work, I find it very hard to stop and just relax to see everything around me. The only time I find myself truly able to observe not only nature but myself is on vacation camping in Minnesota and I know that I am not the only person facing these problems of stress and fatigue. Reality can be very harsh to everyone living within it and feeling the sufferings of it. And that does make the rare understandings of nature more meaningful when ever found. I do agree that romanticism is more powerful and meaningful; however, it is not more common in our dailies lives in this modern day.
Arianna T. In response to Trey D. I agree with some of the points made in your argument, I think that romanticism is more meaningful to us in 2012. I don’t necessarily think that people decide to stick with their everyday schedule. Naturalism has been with us since the 1800s, I think just kind of programmed in us now, we're so used to the daily schedule now it’s not really a decision whether or not we stick to it but when we do something different I do think that we value it more. When you mention how we value romanticism more than naturalism it makes me think how people treat their old flip phone that everybody has 14 of compared to their new iPhone. Everyone accepted their flip phone and knew everything about it, when there was nothing else, then all these new phones came out we couldn’t wait to get the newest phone, now that we have it there is still so much to learn about it but we still value it more than the old phone. Does my metaphor make sense? Well, what I’m trying to say is that naturalism is old and we know a lot about it so there’s less value, romanticism is new and we’re still learning about it so there’s more value. When you mention it being ‘hard to find something meaningful in the harshness of the reality that is naturalism’, I just think you need to look at it from a different angle, naturalism may suck but from all the trials that you endure from it will make you stronger in the long run.
MiKaella W. I personally believe that both romanticism and naturalism are important to us. They are both used today and will always be used. Romanticism is used less than naturalism from what I have come to notice though. In books and television and movies they use naturalism instead of romanticism, most of the time mainly because I think it is much easier for people to understand and try to relate to. In naturalism things are easier to understand and are not as confusing or complicated. However in many movies they tend to lean on romanticism, I mean everyone loves the dramatic scenes about love or the tragedies that come with them. Romanticism excites the audience and interests them, it gives them a chance to compare and relate to the characters or the plot about their own lives'. Today in movies and shows on the television many use naturalism because it makes us think as persons and makes us think about our life and what it would be like if we were to go through what society shows us that happens to other people in the united states and all over the world. I feel like it would be better if naturalism and romanticism were used both equally.
I believe Naturalism is more meaningful for our generation because we tend to have pessimistic thoughts on our surrounding environment and society. We also have no control over our environment and society, it controls our fate. In Stephen Crane's story, Open Boat, the characters are in the middle of the ocean and just have each other to help survive the events that they face. They face a strong wave and successfully recover from it to soon to discover that there will be another wave just like it. In reality we are faced with problems everyday, once we accomplish one problem expecting a break of some sort we will soon discover there will be another problem as complex as the last one. For example last year in Japan they faced a massive earthquake and immediately after, as they tried to recover, faced the after shock that set off a powerful tsunami. Japan conquered one devastating event, they were then left to conquer another problem right afterwards. We relate more to naturalism because we all face problems everyday that we sometimes have no control over the problem we face so we look to others for support. When facing a problem of nature we all strive to survive the event doing what ever it takes in order to live. No matter how hard we try or our social status or heredity we are extremely weak, human, and powerless when it comes to facing nature. There is no free will when it comes nature since it instead decides for us. Naturalism is more meaningful to our generation because we all are in ways affected by it and we always discuss the past calamities.
Amber P. In response to Hayley M. I agree with Hayley’s argument of “When facing a problem of nature we all strive to survive the event doing whatever it takes in order to live” because it is very true. In our lives we face issues that are horrible and sometimes dangerous. Our society is more naturalistic therefore we will reduce to degrading behaviors to survive. For example when a parent’s child is in danger that parent will do whatever it takes to make sure their child is safe. Our parents would probably kill for us to be safe because they love us. Another aspect of Hayley’s argument that I like is the ordinary person vs. nature. Hayley mentioned the disasters in Japan and how ordinary people conquered very scary events. The people in Japan don’t have super powers and are normal human beings, but they overcame something very tragic. In naturalism there are heroes that step up and overcome obstacles. The heroes are ordinary and average people. The people of Japan are ordinary people who stepped up and became the heroes. They overcame the obstacles of the earthquake and tsunami. I agree with naturalism being more meaningful to us in 2012 because all aspects of naturalism are in our lives and it’s the way we live.
Lukas A. Romanticism is a wonderful way to live, it lets us love, it brings us together as communities, and it allows us to be able to sleep at night without fear. In my opinion, it or any branching ideas are nothing more than a rainbow in the distance. Sure, you could work arduously without falter to arrive at the sacred touchdown of that rainbow, but once there you realize it was just a mirage. As unfortunate as it sounds, tragedies are frequent and sporadic. Nature is not a being, and it does not do things for a purpose. Our world is governed by the undefined laws of this unpredictable force. However, the beings within nature are not random, but instead pushed by the randomness of nature. Our choices are self-determined in logical ways. In any given situation there is a choice, and these choices are actions of logic. Yes, people can act romantically, but these actions are a decision derived from logical thought. Freud’s theories tell us that thoughts are generated by greed or necessity and then logic is applied to the thought to help us acquire whatever we are wanting. He believes that the brain will turn to extraneous solutions if an obstacle stands in our way. The fact is, all beings will do whatever it takes to reach their goal. These ideas explain how beings are forced into choices and forced to act on them, so therefore logic explains all situations. To answer the question, I believe that for today and always, Naturalism is held higher and higher as we consider ideas such as science and as we further search for answers to our unanswerable questions.
Lukas, there are a lot of big ideas in this response. I appreciate that. Can you make your arguments concrete by providing examples from Crane or the Transcendentalists we have read? Would a Naturalist argue that decisions are always our own choices? Are there forces that are stronger than an individual's will that can be used to also explain the choices that we make? You have pulled Freud into your discussion to illustrate the internal forces that act on a person but what are the external forces that also act on a person?
Madelyn I. I think Lukas has done some really good thinking with this topic. He made a point that, "...all beings will do whatever it takes to reach their goal". People will possess the pessimistic determination to live and prosper. The main "goals" for realists seems to just be the struggle for life itself, and maintaining their dignity while doing it. Is that really our only motivation? Live, so we don't have to die? I seems as if that's the realists purpose. What does a realist do when they aren't struggling with a tragedy? You said that our choices are made by logic, but what about hope? Hope can drive us to do amazing things. I mean, can there really be no greater explanation when something amazing happens in our life? Is it just pure luck? When people are in a really bad place, aren’t we all comforted by the idea that things will get better? Even if it seems impossible, we are all driven to continue our day, hoping that we really aren’t alone in this. The majority of society is desperate to believe that there is a greater force, looking out for them. Whether this idea of a “greater being” is fact of fiction, the possibility of it is enough hope to motivate society. Nobody wants to be alone. It doesn’t have to be us against the universe. I also think that it’s safe to say that society tries to find “good” in everyone. If this is true, if everyone does possess goodness inside of them, than there is truth in the romantics main idea. One could say that there is a piece of God (goodness) in all of us.
Emily R. Between romanticism and naturalism, both are obviously used. But in 2012 I believe that naturalism is more commonly used or seen. Such as in movies or television, where most of the characters are leading an everyday lifestyle, of which we are able to relate too. Also seen in our lives, as every day people, we have the pessimistic determinism to lead a normal life much like our parents, and have a family, job, house, etc. As kids most of us thought we wanted to be a pop singer, movie star or professional athlete but after growing up the natural response is to do what‘s easiest. Most people aren’t going to attend college out of state, and most people aren’t going to want to go somewhere else that their friends are not at. Although you can spot romanticism, like the movie stars on commercial’s saying “follow your heart!” however most of us shrug that comment and go on with our day. Naturalism can be seen widely and commonly in the year 2012. Although romanticism can be seen too, naturalism just appears to be more reachable.
Why does Naturalism appear to be more reachable? We reach for goals, is Naturalism a goal? I can see a clear relationship between "following your heart" and Romanticism and self-improvement, but does this same relationship between self-improvement and Naturalism exists?
In today's modern world, both romanticism and naturalism are used in exchange, in varying situations and instances. Some may argue one is used more than the other, while others may feud about which one is more ideal in our new way of life, pertaining to technology and other various advancements over the last few centuries. In the world of technology, inventing and innovating, romanticism as well as naturalism are both 'key factors,' for one derives his/her ideas, his/her thoughts on new technologies from ones individualism, from their freedom and their imagination, for that is romanticism. All around us romanticism is used, for both the good and the bad, such as in movies like Forest Gump. In Forest Gump, even though he was crippled, by sheer will and persevering he was able to run out of his disorder, free from the natural rules that make up our world and our bodies. However, naturalism is used just as much, in and out of the classroom. In the movie 2012, and all of the articles, documents, and foreshadows about the end of the world, we use naturalism as we express how nature and the world will go about its way, whether or not that is good for our race or not. For the world does not see humans as significant. There are many naturalists in the world who believe things have to be scientific, things have to be precise and of the laws of the natural world and physics as such. Especially in designing and developing new technologies, which our race in today's age strives on. Naturalistic inventors and innovators think of ideas and new thinks to create but not from imagination, but rather from what has already been created, what will work based on their natural surroundings, and the 'defined' rules of how nature and this world works. So in determining which movement is more meaningful in today's world, either romanticism or naturalism, one cannot because they are both used in various situations.
Shannon C. In 2012, I think that Naturalism is more relevant to everyday life. This is commonly reflected through society by way of television, magazines, and other types of media. It is portrayed to our generation that everyone struggles and that’s just the way it is. Romanticism is seen in society also, but sometimes seems almost off limits. Many people can relate to seeing movies with a happy ending, a love story perhaps; in this love story, everyone gets what they want and they live happily ever after. The only problem with this idea seen on the big screen, so many people are used to the idea that it would never happen to them. The romanticism we see not only in movies on the big screen, but also in print media is a way for us to “dream” of what could be. Picking up a magazine at the grocery store and drooling over what other people have in their lives will ultimately make you hopeless. Although these ideas of the dream lifestyle do not particularly fit the characteristics of traditional romanticism, I think that they complement the relevance of naturalism in our daily lives very well. We take a look at these movies, and stars living their perfect lives, and find ourselves wishing that was us. However, most people think that could never happen for them. People tend to have that negative outlook on life, and society is to blame. More and more you hear on the news information of less importance about some issue with our society. This only lets us dwell over the bad aspects in life and never let us see the light in life. We are so dependent on this unimportant information that it takes away from our own lives. This in turn leaves a majority of the people in society today hopelessly living their lives day by day without a purpose to do anything daring or different.
Shannon C. in reply to Amber P. I agree and disagree with what Amber has to say. In today’s society, there are many examples of why nature doesn’t stop for humanity and that humanity is not superior in any way to nature. However, is this all that you can argue? Is nature really a huge part of society today at all? Whether we like it or not, in our society today, you could argue that no one cares what nature has to say. Many people wouldn’t even relate the hard times that they face to nature. I think that our society has created such an image that nature is not important. It’s just there. For most people, it’s the backdrop to their lives full of the stresses of their everyday lives. People’s lives are more about doing what everyone else does. They’d much rather conform then be a person of their own. However, If one person blames the tornado for not respecting their lives, I’m sure that many people would start to say the same thing. So I guess I agree with the fact that naturalism is more important in today’s society, but I having nature as the key point in that argument is something that I can disagree with.
Bryce K.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion both romanticism and naturalism play a key role in today’s world. As much as we look at the straight facts like what we see on the news and read about each day, we also enjoy looking forward and bringing a sense of hope into a world that is already so down. Even movies for example often start out naturalistic, simply explaining the story line but often end romantically with a good guy that saved the day or just a simple happy ending. As much as I am sure that we would all enjoy a world based off of romanticism I am afraid that we will never have as much romanticism, as naturalism. Naturalism puts the information in a straight forward easy to understand fashion, and gets the facts across that we must know. Sometimes hearing a news story blown up with useless information is just upsetting and aggravating to read. As for what is simply more important to today’s society, I would say that romanticism is more important but far less often expressed. Of course we all look for the romantic side of things, seeing the good in people and looking for some sort of story that is emotionally appealing to us. When we write, we often attempt to make things a bit more pleasant than they seem, or if not give a sense of hope that is not as often expressed by public emotions or even what we say but writing is one thing that may always give us that sense of hope and life that we all wish to have. Back to the original question, my thought is that romanticism is more important to us in 2012, however naturalism is the norm and what is most frequently created, written, or expressed.
Ellen M.
DeleteIn Response to Bryce K.
I agree with Bryce’s opinion that both Romanticism and Naturalism are key parts of society today. Its always nice to take a turn to the bright side of things once in a while, but how many people are actually able to do that? Also, many movies and television series do not end happily. Just a last weekend, I watched a movie based on a television show. In the show, two girls were in love with one boy, and fighting for his love, but throughout the entire series and first movie, he showed no feelings toward either of them. In the last 5 minutes of the second and last movie of the series, the male lead died while saving the world, after just telling one of the girls he could not accept her feelings, and telling the other girl that he was sorry it took so long for him to tell her he loved her. The female lead that he loved runs into the explosion as he is dying, and the other female lead who was denied his love runs after. The movie ends, and the producers have declared no more movies will be made. I personally didn’t think that was romantic, upbeat, and cheerful at all; I was screaming at the television using words that may not be the best to mention at this time. As Bryce states, I agree that Naturalism is great for the news, and Romanticism is great for fiction literature, but in reality, Naturalism is indeed “the norm,” and not only more “frequently created, written, or expressed,” but also more influential in lives today.
Carly B.
ReplyDeleteNaturalism is more relevant to our lives in 2012 than Romanticism. Our Naturalistic outlook on life shows that we do not look to nature to find truth in ourselves and that God is in every one of us; but that nature does not care and we do not influence it’s actions. Stephen Crane wrote about the experience of four men in Own Story. Those ordinary men fought through waves to get to shore, but as they survived one, another came. No matter how hard the men worked, nature did not acknowledge their hard work and change the course of the sea to help them. This naturalistic thought is similar to one of my brother’s experiences. He and some friends had made plans to go cross-country skiing in Minnesota at the beginning of January. As the date got closer, there had yet to be snow. Their reservations had already been made and they could not cancel, although they had already paid a deposit of three hundred dollars. Nature did not care about all the arranged plans they had made, it was still not going to snow. Romantics would have thought that nature had a plan for them and there was a reason for the lack snow in January, but the Naturalistic view of this circumstance is a more pessimistic aspect of the young men’s plan. In our everyday lives today, we no do not look to God and nature to find answers and the truth in ourselves and the world; but that we all determine our own fate.
Rylie W.
DeleteI agree with Carly. Now people have more naturalistic ideas, especially regarding nature. Nature does not just give everyone a break if they have plans or have something they need to do, nature just happens the way it wants. Romantics would believe that nature would give everyone a break. They would believe that no matter what, if something happened in their favor, it was nature that made everything work out. Now, nature has no importance in whether or not we can do things, nature does not really have feelings. I also agree with her statement regarding looking into nature. Romantics believed that if you looked into nature and got to know nature that you could get to know yourself. They also believed that if you got to know nature you could know everyone else because everyone was connected to nature. Naturalists believe that you cannot learn about someone by just getting in touch with nature, but you have to talk to them and learn from your own experiences. You cannot just learn about nature and spend time in nature to learn more about yourself. Sure, you could think and have experiences that teach you about yourself, but just by "getting to know nature" you cannot learn more about yourself.
Emily B.
DeleteI agree with Carly as well. In our society today, people have naturalistic ideals about nature. in the sense that nature has conrtol over what it does and people can't change that, Nature just happens like it's supposed to. Romantics would think that because this one thing happened to set back someone's plans, that it was meant to be that way, and there was a reason why. They would believe that since it was nature, it was God sending a message to us. But now when there are any weather conditions we can still go out and do what we want, because we have the ability to do so. No matter what the romantics believed, I think that we cannt look into nature to find ourselves, nature does not have a little bit of "God" in everything.
Rylie W.
ReplyDeleteIn 2012, I think naturalism is more meaningful than romanticism. I think that Stephen Crane’s Open Boat really compares to a story that would be told today. Crane focuses on the horrors of the ship crew, and in a lot of books and movies today, the authors and writers focus on the bad things in life that happen because otherwise it is just life. In Batman Begins, Bruce Wayne is trying to be a normal man, but he is doing everything he can to save the world without being discovered. This is an example of naturalism because even though bad things are happening, they are happening to ordinary people, and an ordinary person is trying to save them. I think that the idea of nature being part of everyone and everything is long gone. Many people focus on the beauty or realism of nature, but nature is not looked at as being a part of everyone or the same as people. In Mary Oliver’s poetry, she focuses on the realism of nature and not the beauty or meaning. She talks about what actually happens, and not only the good things that happen. In today’s society, many people believe you have to learn about yourself before you can understand others, and for romantics, you could learn about yourself through either nature or others. Naturalists are able to learn about themselves through past experiences they have had and not through experiences with nature or getting to know others. Romantics believed that there was a little piece of God in everyone, and naturalists do not believe that. Naturalists believe that you can find God within yourself, but not everyone is born with that spark or piece of God in you, you have to search for it and find it. I think overall in today’s society, naturalism shows in our beliefs more than romanticism.
I agree with you. Your examples of Crane’s Own Story and Batman Begins demonstrate well how bad things happen to ordinary people and how they handle them. Nature is not the one to help them or solve their problems, they do it themselves. I also believe that naturalism is more rational than romanticism, and that many people believe that today. Like you said, nature is no longer being looked at as being apart of everyone. Stephen Crane implies the lack of importance nature is having on man in Open Boat. He states, “When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important, and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disappointing him…” (1363). This statement explains the thoughts that nature no longer cares about man. Unlike the romantics who believe that everyman is a part of God, which that statement would have been thought of as false because man is a very vital part of nature and would not want to harm him. All of these examples show that naturalism is better suited in society today than romanticism.
DeleteLauren B.
ReplyDeleteI think romanticism/transcendentalism is more important to us in 2012. The whole purpose to naturalism, to me, seemed to be a way to explain what people didn’t understand logically. In the 1800s, I think naturalism was used to show people what actually existed without sugar-coating it or anything like that. It was a sort of way to understand things back then, because they didn’t have the technology and science that we do today. But now in 2012, we have discovered a wave of new things that were unheard of in the 1800s. We know things in the realms of medicine and technology that people back then couldn’t even think of, let alone create. So, they used naturalism to explain what they didn’t understand or weren’t sure about. It worked back then, because it showed the rest of the population what actually existed and what did not. However, since our society is so much more advanced these days, we do not require naturalism. We know on a greater scale what exists and what could be (spiritually speaking). We do not need naturalism these days, because we already understand human nature and the world around us so much better than a few hundred years ago. Why then, do we need romanticism? We don’t need it, but it is more advantageous to us now than naturalism would be because it can stimulate our imaginations. It can help us decide what we think about the relationship between us and our surroundings (nature in particular). It can restore the spirituality that was prominent in the 1800s. I guess what I am trying to say is that naturalism was necessary in the 1800s because people then needed a reality check. We’ve got that reality check now, and we better understand what actually ‘is’ now. I think we need romanticism to catch up on a spiritual level.
Courtney W.
ReplyDeleteIn 2012, I believe that both Romanticism and Naturalism are meaningful. Many people in our world are looking for the higher sides of life, and with Romanticism they can achieve that. Everyone is looking for things that will make their lives better. In movies made today, you see how a lot of the romantic films a woman is having problems and she meets a guy and gets all wrapped up in him and her life begins to get better. Romanticism is the escape from the reality that we do not want to have. She loves to have that high, but then the movie comes into a more Naturalistic point of view. The guy is in an accident and is in critical condition. It brings the woman back in to the cruel reality of the world, full of pain and sadness. Naturalism, I believe gives us the dose of reality that we need. Because not everything in our world is coated in sugar and not everything is going to go our way. Naturalism shows how much we actually value our lives and do not base it off how we connect with nature. In Stephen Crane’s Own Story, he shows us how the four men from the crew were on the small dingy and the other men were on the makeshift raft hanging on by a rope, and they realized they were not going to live if any of the men on the raft pulled them in. They had to face the fact that they needed to cut the rope in order to survive. Most of them survived, and lived to tell of the horrors that they went through. This is why it’s important that you do what you need to do to survive, but you need to have a happier side to your life to help make it through that tough time.
Margaret G.
DeleteI highly agree with you. With movies people want to watch today, teenagers and adults alike, there seems to always be a Romantic and Naturalistic plot. It’s almost too unbelievable if the woman was in love and happy the whole time because that’s not how life really plays out. The Naturalism plays a large part to create a conflict that usually comes together in the end and resolves itself anyway. In movies, without the harsh realities people face everyday, no one could relate to it, therefore it would probably become bland to watch. Even in Barbie movies and Dora the Explorer, there is always something terrible that happens that must be solved, whether it’s with the help of friends, or a heroic save all by one person. It’s hard to have a storyline without Naturalism and Romanticism together. If it’s all Naturalism, it might be too depressing. If it’s all Romanticism, it might be too sappy and fake. Together, I think they balance each other out.
Clara P.
ReplyDeleteIn 2012, naturalism is more meaningful to us than romanticism. Stephen Crane's Open Boat and our own personal experiences really show this. In Open Boat, Crane explains the horrors the shipcrew faced. No matter how hard the men struggled to survive, nature did not acknowledge it and never changed the behavior of the sea for their own sake. Nature does not show any concern for humanity. We learn this throughout our own lives as well. When I was younger, my family made plans to go to a beach out near Palo. As we drove, the sky darkened, and we thought to ourselves that the weather would lighten up when we arrived. Well...it didn't. The weather didn't care that we had made plans, it just behaved how it wanted. We have no control over nature and its actions. In society today, everyone learns that that we control our own fates; not nature. Overall, I believe that naturalism is more meaningful to us than romanticism, in 2012 and the previous years as well.
Lauren B., in response to Clara P.
DeleteI think it is also important to remember that there are more aspects to naturalism besides the tenet that nature is indifferent to humanity. That is a big part of naturalism, but by no means is the philosophy summed up entirely by that single belief. Your statement “we control our own fates; not nature” is the complete opposite of what naturalism dictates. According to naturalism, “[we] do not have free will”, and “external and internal forces, environment, or heredity control [our] behavior”. If you truly believe that we control our own fates, you would be arguing for romanticism/Transcendentalism. That is where the whole “man thinking vs. mere thinker” scenario comes from. A mere thinker (a naturalist, the way I see it) is influenced too heavily by his environment or heredity, but a man thinking (Transcendentalist) is himself dignified by his unique, individual thoughts. According to Transcendentalism, we can control ourselves and learn more about ourselves by observing nature. As naturalism declares, we have no will and are just “animals”. It sounds as if your argument revolves around the idea that we control ourselves, and that’s all we need to know. That’s an argument for Transcendentalism, as I’ve said before, but I think we need to consider more in our everyday lives than just our control over our own fates. We ought to consider always that each and every person deserves respect because we each contain a part of the Oversoul (God) inside us. (This is a romanticism/Transcendentalism tenet.) I don’t think a society should ever grow out of a desire for unity. I think romanticism is still more important to us today in 2012.
Chase W.
ReplyDeleteI believe that naturalism is more meaningful to us in 2012, as opposed to romanticism. I can support this by two major reasons, above the various other ideas of naturalism. The first being, subject matter is comprised of daily life experiences. Looking at movies, T.V. shows, and books today, we can notice that the majority incorporate scenarios that most people can relate to, or may have even experienced personally. This gets the audience more involved in what is going on in the story or plot, and captures a higher attention. An example of this is the movie Marley and Me. Yeah that’s right, the one that made everyone cry, due to Marley the dog being have to put down. When I first saw this movie, I was automatically interested due to the comedy aspects, but this wasn’t all that drew my attention. The movie was very realistic, and something that most dog owners go through. When the puppy is first brought into our life, it is a great joy, but then come the hardships of training it and getting it to abide by the rules that you enforce. Then as the years progress, your dog tames down, and becomes very close to you, and you experience many things together. You develop a love for your pet, aside from all the hardships that you initially had to go through, and then comes the time when he or she is too old and may have to be put down. I can directly relate to this, when I had my first dog. It was my first pet ever, I had known him since I was born, and we experienced many things together, such as how he would always take my ice cream that I would get from the ice cream truck when I was little. We had been through a lot, and when the day finally came to put him down, my family was very sad, and this personal experience of mine caused me to be attentive when watching the movie, and at the conclusion of the movie I had remembered my own experience with putting my dog to sleep, and that same sadness came back to me when I watched the movie. This is one example how subject matter is comprised of daily life experiences. The second major reason that I believe naturalism is more meaningful to us in 2012 than romanticism is that the controlling force is society. This idea is meaningful to us, because it is very true and is what for the most part causes us to do most things. One example of this is how society has created the idea that pink is a girl color and blue is a boy color as well as boys play with transformers and action figures while girls play with dolls. From the day we are born these concepts that the society has developed are immediately put upon us, rather than letting the kids choose what they would rather play with or what color they want to wear. As soon as a family realizes they are having a baby boy, they start buying blue clothes, as opposed to pink, and vice versa. The same is done with toys. Nobody goes against this, we instead go along with what society has branded into our minds, because that’s what has always been done. Therefore based on how often daily life experiences are incorporated into movies, books, and T.V. shows, as well as how society controls us, I believe that naturalism is more meaningful to us in 2012, as opposed to romanticism.
Ellen McCauley
ReplyDeleteNaturalism is more meaningful to Americans in 2012 due to our tendency to focus on the bad side of a situation, our focus on the middle and lower classes in society, and our ideas of determinism. Naturalism is based on pessimistic determinism, meaning our fate lacks hope, and the outcome of a situation will usually be bad. Many people I know today have become cynics, seeing the glass as half empty. Due to the many situations that American’s encounter in life—the poor economy, the job market declining, hopes for college scholarships and a secure future disappearing—Americans tend to focus on the possible, and in their eyes, very likely negative outcome of things. In movies, books, and even in every day politics, Americans focus on the middle and lower classes of society. In books and movies, the hero today is usually a normal citizen, if not, then usually someone who comes from a rough background, experiencing hardships in their life before or at the beginning of the story. In reality, politics also focus on these people. Americans mention the rich, but mostly when they are talking about how the taxes should change. Mostly, politics today focuses on helping the poor and middle classes have a better standard of living, better jobs, and therefore, money to spend to raise the economy. Lastly, some Americans believe in determinism, or our lives being laid out for us, without many choices. Certain branches of Christianity sometimes include some sort of determinism for us. A classic phrase also proves this point—“If it is meant to be, then it is meant to be,” or something of that sort. Meaning that if destiny and fate want something to happen, then it will, otherwise, don’t worry about it, because obviously, it wasn’t meant to be. This pushes out the idea of Free Will, where one would take hold of their own destiny, and force the event or situation that was “meant to be” into happening. Clearly, Naturalism is more meaningful to Americans in 2012 due to the tendency to focus on the negatives rather than the positives, the focus on middle and lower classes of society in popular culture and politics, and the idea of determinism.
Bryce Krueger
DeleteIn response to Ellen McCauley
I can completely agree with what Ellen is saying here. She very accurately points out what we as Americans in 2012 do focus on every day. Things such as the “poor economy, the job market declining, hopes for college scholarships and a secure future disappearing”. There is no doubt that with all of these things happening within the world around us that we have to in some way shape or form become cynics, as Ellen has stated. Yes we would enjoy seeing the romantic side of things for once but it just very seldom happens. I’m sure that many other Americans such as myself have a rather difficult time taking grasp of the positives happening all around us every day. We dream for a better tomorrow, we dream for our happy ending, but when we wake up and face the world every day new challenges are thrown our way and takes our mind and simply drops it in the dark gutters of life, leafing us suffocating for freedom, and hope of a new world. Making a long story short, Ellen I appreciate you pointing out that indeed the world is very full of “cynics” and many others, who simply cannot see the positive or romantic side of things. We are surrounded by a natural world, so why would our thoughts be any different?
Alleigha C-G.
DeleteI agree with Ellen. Societies view on the status of Americans is looked at from a naturalistic point-of-view. We often oversee the higher class and look for the negatives or as Ellen put it "seeing the glass half empty" when in all actuality we could flip that and think of the glass as half full. With this being said, I believe that society today is not just based off of naturalism though it does appear a lot. Even through the posts most of us write about what influences us such as movies and entertainment and even we miss out on little details and corporations such as churches and other beliefs that keep the idea of romanticism alive. When all else fails, we look to the ideas of romanticism to give us a feeling of comfort and to feel like everything is okay even if just for the moment (Spiritually Speaking). This is what leads me to believe that both Naturalism and Romanticism are both meaningful to us in 2012.
Savanna P.
ReplyDeleteI believe that in 2012 both Romanticism and Naturalism play important roles in society. In books, television and movies the main characters tend to be ordinary people or even extraordinary people posing as ordinary people. They center around people that would normally be seen as insignificant which plays towards Naturalism but takes that insignificance and warps it so they become the most significant person in the world, at least while you’re reading or watching that particular piece. Thinking back to “The Scarlet Letter” Dimmsdale is filled with an utter hopeless grief for his sin because he cannot tell anyone about it. He grows weaker and weaker through the book filling the readers with his own hopelessness, a trait often shown in Naturalism, but then when he admits his sin and in turn dies Pearl accepts him as her father playing on a more romantic view of things. Similarly so in an episode of the 2005 series of Doctor Who the Doctor and his companions land on a planet in the midst of war and he is forced to use a machine that creates a female soldier that is technically his daughter who is later given the name Jenny. In the start of the episode he rejects the idea of her being his daughter because she is “born” with only knowledge of war and seemingly no desire to try and make peace, when the Doctor uses a passive-aggressive approach to try and make sure that everybody comes out on top. Through the episode Jenny comes to realize that she does in fact have a choice as to whether or not she kills anyone unlike she was “born” thinking and when the Doctor realizes it he is finally able to accept the fact that she is his daughter pulling in the more romantic view of things and allowing a more hopeful outlook that had previously been blocked by the seemingly hopelessness of the Doctor ever accepting her as a part of his life that had been projected throughout the rest of the episode. So all in all in my experience both the use of Romanticism and Naturalism have been shown meaningfully in today’s society.
Ky K.
ReplyDeleteI believe that naturalism is more significant to people in 2012 then romanticism. Romanticism deals with emotion and freedom, to write and do what you want to. To always follow your heart and not what your mind tells you. Yes, we are free to do what we want and write about what we want, but in life you can’t go off your immediate perception of things and think you will be able to survive. More people in this world are characterized of naturalism. Like in Open Boat, the four men had to survive to stay alive and it’s the same way for people too. Not everyone has a good life; they struggle to survive sometimes not as extreme as in Open Boat. More people these days live in middle to lower class houses and are very poor. They have to go off what their mind tells them to so they can survive and to get through the struggles of life. People in those types of situations can’t go by what their heart says because sometimes it’s not the best decision for them. Also naturalism is more significant because nature truly doesn’t care about humans and we react to nature. If nature did care, there wouldn’t be hurricanes and tornados that go and destroy thousands of homes and kill people. When those situations occur we react to it, we are conditioned to take safety because at that time nature doesn’t care about human life. If we could control it there wouldn’t be bad storms; nature and humans would be able to be together. I believe that naturalistic views and the world today are more meaningful and significant even though most of the time it’s not in a good way. Even though most people probably want to live off of romanticisms views, naturalism is more real life and what people go through.
Hey bloggers, Ky pulls this discussion in a new direction for you. He talks about struggles to survive and not being able to do what your "heart says?" Can you relate this idea to Crane or Thoreau?
DeleteAshley R.
DeleteIn response to Ky Kramer
I completely agree with Ky on his ideas and his choice of argument points. I do think Naturalism relates closer to the everyday life, beliefs, and events that go on in the year of two thousand twelve. The idea that Naturalism is completely based on the universe itself, and no other spiritual figures and/or objects. As for his examples of people choosing what their head says because it is usually contains logic, self-control and keeps the individual and surrounding others safe. On the contrary, Romanticism is when one will completely look to what their heart says and follow it, and not really thinking about others! I really did like your example of Stephen Crane’s Open Boat and how they had to fight to defend and save their lives. (:
Joseph P.
DeleteI agree that naturalism is more applicable to todays society, but I will argue that it may not be the best. While it is essential in today's times that the average man stays reasonable and work within his own limitations it is also important to keep the hope and possibilities of growth that the common transcendental would believe in. Following what your heart says may not be the best option, as shown by Crane's writings where characters who follow internal forces end up in demeaning situations. However, the transcendentalists show the dangers of not following your heart in their writings as well. The Dead Poet Society portrays a character who didn't follow his heart and reached the point of no return because of it. I agree one must be reasonable about their ambitions, but we live in a country in which everyone has the chance to grow to a better situation. I think people need to combine the two ideologies in order to follow their heart, but follow it within reason. The realist aspect of naturalism and the hopeful aspect of transcendentalism make for a very applicable and successful ideology during this day and age. I agree with your thoughts on the transcendental view of nature and how believing in the power of nature to an extreme can be detrimental to one's self and society. I also agree that many people today fit the archetypal naturalist character. I would argue, however, that everyone has the opportunity to fit the transcendental archetype and if applied correctly the beliefs can improve the average man's situation.
Liam L.
DeleteI find it interesting that you talk about lower class people not having the option to follow their heart. I agree with you on this point, in society money can dictate a person’s actions and dreams. As an extreme transcendentalist, Thoreau tried to follow his heart and live out his dreams, no matter the cost. He did things such as “borrow” tools and neglected to pay taxes to live out his dream. Thoreau did things that people today would consider morally wrong. Those people got those morals from society, which may be exactly why Thoreau acted the way he did; he wanted to be an individual set apart from the norm established by society. People today are naturalistic because they won’t follow their dreams. We are held back by the morals or laws established by society. A person decides not steal something they want because of what others will think of them, they will be labeled thieves. I’m not saying that thieves are transcendentalists or that transcendentalists are thieves but I thought the analogy was good. Another thing I’m not saying is that societal conformity is entirely bad; raping, pillaging, killing, and burning are not good “trend setters”, some conformity is good. Overall we are naturalistic due to our societal conformity. Thanks Ky for starting this topic, I hadn’t thought of it that way.
McKenna H.
ReplyDeleteIn the current year, 2012, I believe the idea of naturalism is more significant and used more often than romanticism. Over the course of history, Americans went from looking to nature to explain life experiences and believing a small piece of God is in all of us with romanticism; to realizing nature does not care who or what your situation is and focusing on the reality of daily life according to naturalism. In Stephen Crane’s “Own Story”, he wrote about the dangerous and grim experiences of the journey through the sea. Crane went on to talk about the harsh waves and the death of his ship mate. If Crane would have written this story earlier in history, people would have focused on how nature planned out the waves, death, and other experiences they encountered. Now, with the idea of naturalism in play, people believe that you can’t stop what nature has in store for you. Not only is a naturalistic view displayed in “Own Story”, it is also demonstrated in present day movies and books. In the movie Poseidon, the cruise ship is hit by a massive wave and thousands of people die. Nature did not care about who was on the ship or even the damage it was doing. The only thing nature was doing was repeating the natural course waves took. Although naturalism is displayed in movies and books it also takes place in daily life. This past week Alabama was hit with many tornados in the dead of night. Some of these same towns were also hit by tornadoes and violent storms nearly a year ago. The first tornadoes to occur were worse; killing more people. Nature took its toll on everything and everyone in its path. The residents of Alabama could not explain why the tornados left them with so much damage. They just had to accept the fact that nature happened. Even though naturalistic views are commonly used throughout life now, romanticism is sometimes shown in movies and novels dealing with love and happy endings. In the end, I think naturalism is more meaningful and useful in daily life than romanticism. I believe it will remain that way for the time being.
Amber G
DeleteIn response to Mckenna H.
I agree with what you are saying about nature not caring about humanity but we should look at how people react to these natural disasters to further explore naturalism. If you look at how people reacted in Own Story, Poseidon and other natural disasters you see recurring emotions and actions. First of all of these people are just ordinary people and would act as you or I probably would if in a situation such as theirs. All of the characters seem to be frantic at first and lose sight of hope quit often through their journeys. The people also tend to make choices in a near to death situation that they would not have made otherwise. I think that when you look at ordinary people and how they act to certain occurrences you can often find similarities. When thinking about this from a naturalistic viewpoint one might think this occurs because society is the controlling force. We see people acting a certain way that when it happens to us we happen to behave in the same sort of way because people’s actions are influenced by others in society even without realizing it sometimes. I totally agree with you that it seems as nature does not care at times and seems to be in differ to humanity, but in order to think in a naturalistic way we need to think about our actions and how we behave in society.
Margaret G.
ReplyDeleteI believe that romanticism is more important in 2012 because a lot of people like to think about the perfect couple in movies or books and having that special someone or being able to relate to your own life. Like The Notebook for example, how two high school sweethearts die together and yet it’s sad because the wife has Alzheimer’s and can’t remember anything. We already see the harsh realities of life from magazines or television, and it gets so depressing, I think people start to get tired of the bitter and the real-life issues. Sometimes people just want to get lost in romance literature and forget about what’s really happening outside for a little while.
McKenna H.
DeleteI like the way you supported your opinion in your post. Even though I believe naturalism is more meaningful in our society today, I agree with you on the points you presented. In a lot of chick flicks you see a dream relationship everyone wishes they could have. Such as the upcoming movie “The Vow”; how a married couple gets in a car accident and she loses all her memory of her husband. The movie goes on to show the beautiful struggle as the husband is trying to teach his wife about him and their marriage. Every day we hear tragic stories of the common man and the tough experiences they go through. In such movies and novels the common person watches and reads; they experience a mix of naturalism and romanticism. First there’s usually some type of problem that sets up the plot and then romanticism takes over the rest of the movie. Mostly focusing on romanticism the rest of the movie by relating to nature and looking to nature to try to find themselves. They also put dramatic love experiences in the movies and novels that the common person usually does not go through. Over time, I believe people sometimes get tired of hearing about grim events and want to experience some romanticism ideas which leads them to go to movies or read love novels. Although you said romanticism was more important, I still believe naturalism is more important and meaningful to us today because it’s used more than romanticism is. I still like the point you had brought up in your post though.
Alex S.
ReplyDeleteNaturalism or Romanticism, which one is more meaningful to today’s society? To me, Naturalism seems to immediately pop out as the more prominent in today’s society. In our daily lives, we, as a society, tend to be more Naturalistic. We don’t study nature as something we can study to figure out ourselves, we study nature to try and figure out how it works and simply that. We don’t look at nature like a Transcendentalist or a Romantic would. But that’s not the whole story of our society.
Look at some of the most popular movies from the past few years. Lots of them are about ordinary people in ordinary circumstances who then have an experience which makes them feel empowered to go do something. Take a few of the ever popular superhero movies. In The Green Hornet and The Batman series, the main characters, despite their vast amounts of money, are plain and ordinary people who want nothing else but to live out their lives how they please. That’s a very naturalistic outlook on life. But here’s the twist, they all start to fight against evil because of some twist in fate. And in the end they prevail over the evil or darkness and get the girl (there is always a girl). Now wait a second! Isn’t that very romantic of them? It is! Our culture has done something magnificent over many long years, it has changed.
I see our culture as neither naturalistic nor romantic. It is a mixture of the two. Our culture takes parts of Romanticism and Naturalism and mixes them together into something different. We get the “ordinary” and nature being unrelenting from Naturalism and we get the power of mankind and the optimistic outlook of Romanticism.
So, which is more meaningful? The answer could be both of them are of the same meaning to us, but the answer could also be that neither of them are of any meaning to us. It doesn’t really matter. We are allowed to believe what we want, and that’s another great thing starting to really emerge in our society and culture.
Maddy M.
ReplyDeleteIn 2012, my opinion is that romanticism/transcendentalism is more meaningful to us, but I think that naturalism is more common in today’s society. In a lot of movies like The Notebook, Dear John, or The Last Song, the story lines are based on realism, for example, in The Last Song her father has is sick and dying slowly and she meets a guy who she falls in love with, and in Dear John, the guy she falls in love with has to go back to war 2 weeks after being together. These themes are based on naturalistic ideas that they are normal people living normal lives but then the romanticism is brought in because both guys in the movies sweep the girls off their feet, and they fall in love even through the hard situations. I’m sure everyone would love it if society was more based on romanticism over naturalism, seeing the good in every situation and believing everyone has God in them, but the reality is that most people see the bad over the good in most situations. Many people aren’t looking to nature and God to learn about themselves and their good fate, many people think they decide their fate based on their own actions, not by God’s plan for them. This is why I think that romanticism is more meaningful in our society because people like to see the good in others and the good in situations and having the idea that God has a plan and good fate for everyone but most of the time the bad is what is seen. Also, romantics believe that you can learn about yourself by knowing nature, and in today’s society, you learn by experience most of the time, and that’s also what naturalists believe; that you can learn more about yourself by experiencing real life situations. This is why I think romanticism is more meaningful to people in today’s society, but naturalism is more common whether we like it or not.
Allison V.
ReplyDeleteI believe that today people view Naturalism to be more important than Romanticism. Now days people are more realistic about situation and understand that life is not always “cookie cutter” perfect. This can be related back to many Naturalistic poets and writers who understood the good things in life, but also the bad things. Emily Dickinson for example could write about being in love but in her next poem the topic could be about facing her death. I think that many teenagers and young adults share these thoughts and can relate well to the whole idea of naturalism quite well. Now don’t get me wrong, I do believe that naturalism is the prominent lifestyle, however I also think that romanticism does still exist. The differences in these types of people are very different. On a personal level I understand that as much as I hope, things will not always work out about be perfect. I feel as if I know that life isn’t fair and that things will not always go my way. On the opposing side however I do think that if we learn about the world around us we will learn about ourselves. Although I do not completely agree with all romantic ideas, they do seem appealing. In my dream world I would always get what I want and people would always be fair to others. This however doesn’t happen and because of learning about naturalism and comparing it to romanticism I have discovered more about myself. It has taught me that I must accept some things as they are and that life is not always fair. Some people do achieve greatness, but others live mediocre lives. As harsh as it may sound I think that people need to accept that we can’t all be popular or have a lot of money. Make the best of your life and live it to the fullest because you only have one chance, so why not make it count?
Allison J.
DeleteI agree with Allison. I believe naturalism is more relevant to 2012 because it relates to everyday people. Everyday people are mostly realistic and know that things will not always go their way. I also read many of Emily Dickinson’s poetry and also noticed her variety in themes or subjects. Emily Dickinson was both a naturalistic writer and romantic writer. Her poems about love were more unrealistic and fantasy like. Her other poetry is mostly about nature, God, and life. This is where she relates to naturalism by mentioning nature, and writing about her life and how it was never perfect. My peers who are teenagers and young adults I think can relate and understand naturalism more than romanticism. I think this because we still have life experiences and have many mistakes to make and learn from. I also agree with Allison because she said if we learn about the world we will learn about ourselves. I do believe this to be true because past experience, getting to know other people, and observing my surroundings I have learned a lot about myself. You can’t control nature and what will happen in your life; therefore, I believe that you should take risks. Live your life to the fullest because you never know when it will end or what will happen next in your life.
Stasi K.
ReplyDeleteRomanticism is more meaningful to society in 2012 because it is easily applies to everyday life while providing individuals with understanding and a more positive view of the world. The focus on emotion and the individual in romanticism can be seen throughout our lives especially when facing unexpected difficulties. Individuals tend to overcome these difficulties through optimistic thinking and the belief that better things are to come in the future. People rarely use naturalistic ideas such pessimistic determinism to overcome their problems because it does not give them hope. Since romanticism places emphasis on the individual rather than the surrounding environment it is more present in everyday life because it is easier for us to relate to our own emotions rather than trying to understand the naturalistic mysteries of nature. Modern films and novels often include elements of romanticism because they have greater appeal to the audience. Naturalistic ideas in Stephen Crane’s Open Boat contrast with the plots of modern films and novels because unlike Crane’s brief description of the struggling men in the lifeboat, today’s authors and directors provide the audience with detailed descriptions of the characters allowing us to better relate to the characters which often brings out our own emotions. Films focus on the characters rather than the surrounding environment and typically end in a way that connects to the rest of the plot. A naturalistic ending may not fulfill the audience’s expectations because the characters have no control over their future and events do not happen for a specific reason. Open Boat concluded with the death of “the oiler” which revealed the random actions of nature but most likely left the reader unsatisfied due to their lack of sympathy for the character. Modern religion also supports the presence of romanticism in the present because many doubt the theory of evolution and instead focus their beliefs on the idea that everything happens for a reason. Society has difficulty believing the naturalistic concept of individuals being powerless against nature, therefore many believe in an afterlife or that they will die when they are meant to, rather than randomly. The presence of romanticism in 2012 provides society with an optimistic outlook on the future which allows many to overcome everyday struggles.
Allison V
DeleteIn Response to Stasi K
Surprisingly I completely agree with you on this matter. At first I really thought that naturalism was the way to go and that it was most common. However I didn’t take into account how Hollywood is always making happy endings and people still dream of being successful. When you really start to think about it you can notice how life is overall better when you are optimistic. It can really make you rethink what you once believed in. Personally I was being very close-minded and pessimistic. I didn’t really realize it until I read Stasi’s post. I appreciate how it made me reevaluate my life decisions and overall attitude. Did you know on average that 19% of people live longer because they are optimistic? That is just a number, but why not have a positive outlook on life? You only have one life and you need to make it count!
Hayley M.
DeleteMy response to Stasi,
I agree with some of Stasi's beliefs of romanticism being more meaningful in 2012, for example in one of the most popular books of this time written by Suzzane Collin's is The Hunger Games which shows lots of swishy swashy between naturalism and romanticism. There is a lot of character development in the story that influences the ideas of romanticism. In the beginning of the story, Collin's brings in life stories and experiences from the characters so you can be emotionally attached to them and feel for them when ever they are in trouble. I disagree though with individuality having a big impact since in the book the districts are controlled by the Capital. The Capital changes the environment of the situation whenever they want since they have control of the games. Also in the book there is a lot of pessimistic thinking of whether or not the tributes will make it through the game. I agree though with optimism being a big role because that is what mainly got the tributes through the harsh events of the capital. In contrast though it goes through great detail of the horror and harsh environments that characters go through showing that The Capital has the authority and no one else can take advantage of that. It shows that the tributes are extremely weak and helpless when facing the The Capital. Romanticism and naturalism have a huge impact on the book but, which side does the book eventually take on?....You'll have to find out
Amber P.
ReplyDeleteI believe naturalism is more meaningful to us in 2012 than romanticism. In our lives today we do not look to nature to make decisions. Nature does not care of the outcome of any situation we are put in. We make decisions for ourselves and nature has nothing to do with them. Stephen Crane’s Open Boat is an example of these naturalistic ideas. The men in the boat were trying to get to land but nature kept throwing wave after wave at them. Nature did not care if the men survived or not. These naturalistic ideas relate to today’s life also. Recently there was a tornado that came through Alabama. A teenage girl was found forty feet away from her house after being blown out by the tornado. This girl had her whole life ahead of her and she died. Nature did not care about the teenager or how her life barley even started. Nature took her life without hesitation. Another example is a personal one that happened to me recently. I was on a bus filled with show choir kids on our way to Illinois for a competition. At first we took the shortest way by going east through a winter storm. The bus driver thought he could manage getting through the storm but he was wrong. As we got farther east the storm got worse. It got so bad that the road was barely visible and we kept passing accidents left and right. Finally and accident happened right in front of the bus and we had to veer to the side to miss it. Nature did not care about the bus full of teenagers on their way to a show choir competition. Nature kept on with the horrible winter storm and caused a lot of accidents. The only way we made it to Illinois was by changing our direction and going south. This shows how we do not look to nature to solve our problems or to learn more about ourselves. We have more naturalistic views on life. Nature does not care about humanity or if humanity survives. We make decisions for ourselves and we do not look to nature to help make them.
Chase W.
DeleteIn response to Amber P.
I totally agree with your points Amber. I find it extremely true that no matter what happens, nature is not going to care. Using your example of the show choir bus traveling to Illinois in a winter storm, nature did not care one bit. It’s not like the snow just stopped so you could arrive safely to your destination, instead the bus driver had to take an alternate route around the storm. This happens pretty much every day, and I can think of a specific example relating to my own experiences. I had just gotten out of driver’s education, about a week prior to driving by myself for the first time ever. I had to be to a sports practice this day, and it was pooring down rain. I mean I couldn’t see over a half a mile because it was just coming down in sheets! Even though, I still was expected to show up to practice. I remember gripping the steering wheel so tight feeling so nervous driving. My windshield wipers were going as fast as they could, but that still didn’t help the situation. I could barely see the car ahead of me, but despite this, nature didn’t care one bit. It’s not like the rain just stopped, allowing me to drive in perfect weather conditions, no it continued to poor, and I had to adjust my driving and time of arrival accordingly. This is just another example illustrating the fact that we indeed make decisions for ourselves, and have to work around nature, because nature will not work around our individual needs.
Allison J.
ReplyDeleteI believe naturalism is more meaningful than romanticism in the year 2012. Naturalists tend to believe that you can learn about yourself from past experiences, as well as getting to know others. In Stephen Crane’s The Open Boat the men learn from one another because of their strong brotherhood. Although they do not discuss their brotherhood they all know what they’re doing is for the better, and they need to rely on one another. Naturalists also believe that you cannot control nature, and it doesn’t care. Naturalism is shown through this quotation, “Shipwrecks are apropos of nothing. If men could only train for them and have them occur when the men had reached pink condition, there would be less drowning at sea” (1356 Open Boat). I interpreted this quotation as meaning you can’t prepare yourself for nothing. The men in Open Boat can’t control the nature and waves around them. If they could they would have the hazardous waves occur when they were in the best condition. This would result in losing less people, but the men cannot control what nature does. If nature knew how much the mean were struggling upon the sea then nature may have let up, but in real life nature does not care. This is what naturalists believe. Currently in 2012 naturalism is more relevant to our lives because people learn from their past mistakes and grow from them into a better person. Romantics believe that everyone is born with a piece of God within them. Naturalists believe you must search for that piece of God within yourself because not everyone believes the same. You must take your life into your own hands, and determine your own fate.
Joseph P.
ReplyDeleteNaturalism and Transcendentalism both contributed to literary works as well as society as a whole. Though both were relevant during there respective time periods today neither possess a strong impact on literature or society. That being said, I believe naturalism is more important because in a time where many groups and individuals live with constant struggle the tendency to believe in the symbolism of nature and a divine light inside everything has diminished from the romantic period of American growth and expansion. The advancement of technology has added to the separation from nature that isolates transcendental and romantic beliefs about the extraordinary qualities of nature and our surroundings. Another reason naturalism is relevant to the current times is the spotlight on the ordinary man. Transcendentalism stressed the individual and how every individual had a piece of the oversoul or a divine power inside of them. Naturalists point out the ordinary individual who acts based on instinct and external social forces. People are more likely to relate to an ordinary man than a soulful tree. Excusing the exaggeration the point still stands that naturalist characters are very relatable. However, this relation to characters causes a problem if applied today. The often pessimistic end for the characters can create a pessimistic view for today's individual or a society as a whole. A more applicable writing style today would be optimistic naturalism, where the ordinary character has a more positive outlook and has reasonable success. This writing style would appeal to the common man's logic as well as his hope. The appeal of naturalism today is its reality, but the downside is its spotlight on negative reality. Transcendentalists put a positive spin on life, but fail to play to the reality that most people today live with. Combining the two into a single literary style leaning towards naturalist's realism ideals, would make for an applicable way of reasoning that many could relate to today.
Trey D.
DeleteIn response to Joseph P’s comment.
One quick thing I would like to point out is that you did a great job at explaining how naturalism best fits the present, but you really didn’t explain why it would be meaningful to us in the present. It is a near miss because you state how it would be important for people in today’s society instead of showing how much it would mean to us. Sure, naturalism is what we can most relate to; this makes it easier for us to understand it. But sharing these same principles every day and connecting them to ourselves has lost its meaning, so I don’t think it’s as meaningful as romanticism is today. Romanticism (Transcendentalism), can be put into multiple views today in which people value. Some people may value it for their love of nature, for example, people fight for preservation of nature and they find this more meaningful because there is very few pieces of nature’s true beauty left, considering now technology has led to the destruction of nature. Others value their jobs and education, although this is common and may seem naturalistic; they are valuing being a part that makes the whole. We are educated so we can have knowledge guide us together and lead the way, this also organizes humanity. Jobs are the arms and legs that do the work to keep us moving forward. In reality, we can also strongly relate romanticism to the present. But the difference is that romanticism has many more ways in which it can be interpreted. It is always positive, and people value what little they have. We have little thought of nature and haven’t returned to it, and most people don’t truly know themselves today. Naturalism is only a broad topic which we can relate to, but can only interpret in one way, naturalism is undecided. Wouldn’t you value the idea of controlling your own fate over having your fate be determined randomly without any control whatsoever? Romanticism can be interpreted by ourselves and is overlooked, and sometimes things that are easily overlooked are what we value most. Our sense of honor, education, and nature are overlooked until something bad happens. Then we get a constant reminder of what truly matters.
Whylie M.
ReplyDeletePersonally in my opinion I believe Naturalism plays a larger role in today’s society. Naturalism is what has become acknowledged in our world, believing that no one is given a break from difficulties because they are experiencing a traumatic event. Nature has no remorse for human beings, and therefore Nature does not care. Stephan Crane wrote a story based on the idea of Naturalism which I believe has more of a connection to people today then Romanticism ever would. Stephan Crane’s story Open Boat is about four men experiencing the unbearable difficulties of being lost at sea. Every second experiencing a more difficult task to stay alive, fighting against large waves, having no supplies such as food or water, and the constant tease of temptation of life. Nature does not care about the fact that the men fought the entire way to survive and each time coming closer to experiencing death. Naturalism is experienced in everyone’s life whether people believe it or not. During Christmas all everyone wanted was snow, Christmas just is not the same without snow covering the ground. Each day leading up to Christmas morning I along with many others wished for snow, no matter how hard people wished though Nature was not going to make in snow to make society happy. Nature does not care what human beings input is on the outcome of life, Nature will do what it wants not depending on difficulties people experience or what people hope will happen. Romanticists would have believed that Nature did not produce snow for a reason; Naturalists would have realized Nature just does what it wants and try not to make it seem effortless. Life is difficult; it is not made to be easy, that is why I believe Naturalism is more meaningful in people’s lives in 2012. Nature will never give human beings an easy way out, you have to fight to survive in the world and define your future by working hard and advancing with the difficulties Nature throws your way.
Ben O.
DeleteI agree with Whylie, although her post is centrally focused on how nature doesn’t care about us, I still believe it is very true. Many people use the weather to blame things on, whether it be a snow day, the fact that most kids haven’t had a “brown” Christmas maybe ever. People are able to blame this on nature, as if nature was punishing us for something and thus not allowing for there to be snow on the ground for Christmas so that people could have the so called “ideal” Christmas. Instead I think people should just take that as it didn’t happen, not because nature is punishing us, but it just happens. I agree with Whylie with how she described naturalism in the story with the men lost at sea, I believe that it is a perfect example of how it ties in with how people today use nature as a source of blame.
Weston S.
ReplyDeleteIn 2012 naturalism and romanticism are equally meaningful to us. Naturalism plays a key role in our society because most people don’t believe that nature can teach everything about ourselves and instead we live our lives knowing that nature will do what it wants when it wants and we control only our own actions. This idea of romanticism allows us to take more control of our own actions because we know we can’t control the rest of the world. In Stephen Cranes Open Boat he is able to show this by explaining that they had to do something awful which was to cut the rope and let the others die in order to save their own lives. Romanticism is also widely used in the news. For example, people begin to rely on their own intuition in order to speculate on upcoming political speeches. Naturalism is more apparent in the lives of everyday people but romanticism is used in more literature because it is more appealing to read about then an everyday average person. Naturalism is used to explain to us that we cannot control everything while romanticism allows us to use our own actions in order to control our environment. In today’s society everyone uses a part of each belief in everyday life. For example you think for yourself in order to either do your homework or to not do your homework if it was going to snow, which is using romanticism because you’re using intuition to decide. But we know that it could not snow if we don’t do our homework, which is applying the idea of naturalism because we know that nature does not care whether or not we do it.
Brady K.
DeleteIn Reply to Weston S.
I agree with the statements made. I think our society combines the nice ideas of romanticism with the harsh realities of Naturalism. People dream of everything a romantic novel would give them, yet expect the realities of a naturalistic novel instead. People are more inclined to read romanticism because it appeals to their emotions and allows them to kind of get away from the realities of life. Although Naturalism is more closely relatable to our lives, the idea of romanticism is more appealing. In my honest opinion i too believe that romanticism and naturalism play equal roles in today’s society.
Ashley R.
ReplyDeleteIn 2012, Naturalism is a lot more realistic and useful than Romanticism when it comes to everyday life. The thought of Naturalism is the idea of Mother Nature versus living creations. Meaning that Mother Nature doesn’t acknowledge any living creation before doing something, or before an act is committed. But, Romanticism on the contrary is the idea of nature being courteous towards living creations, and considering them before a disaster or act is committed. It was believed to be true, but as time went on it had really come to be just an idea. Based on Hurricane Katrina, the two thousand eight flood and many other natural disasters that have occurred in the last number of years have killed and injured many people. It just comes to show that Naturalism appeals a lot more to our lives within this day in age. When relating to Stephen Crane’s short story, Open Boat it shows multiple signs of Naturalism with the different struggles they faced. For example, as one wave would come and the sailor’s would defend themselves and fight through it. Right after, or just a bit later another unexpected wave would come and they would have to do the same thing all over again! Quite a few times the Captain had repeated a specific quote about drowning, and had made mentions of the “…seven mad gods.” The quote had expressed him wondering why he wasn’t taken at the beginning of the voyage versus having to go through the ups and down, struggles and multiple hardships. It comes to show that Romanticism has no relation with the twenty first century versus Naturalism being fully relatable to the twenty first century and especially, the year 2012.
Emily B.
ReplyDeleteFor 2012 I feel that naturalism is more meaningful to us. We do not look in nature to find the truth of things, but rather we look in ourselves. Stephen Crane wrote about the hardships that four crew members had to face in their journey to get to shore. Each time they would push through a wave a stronger and bigger one would come and push them away. Nature did not care how hard the men had to try to get to shore; their struggles were not seen as important. Nature did not change the harshness of the sea, merely because it did not care. In today’s society we do not look to God or in nature to find answers, we look within ourselves to set our own destiny. Naturalism is based on the life of an everyday person and how they set their life up for their own fate. Each day a person lives through the reality of what their life is going to end up like. They do not live in the now, but live in the sense of how they will plan their future. Romanticism would believe that we should seek truth in God and through nature and how people should live in the now. But for life right now, many people don’t base their life on these things; but they do on the decisions they make now, in order to plan out their future. Today people think ahead to get a sense of what they want, picking a career and planning out your courses is an easy example of how we do so. Overall I believe that Naturalism is more meaningful to us today, just in the sense that we are the ones that lay out our destiny.
Michelle Z.
DeleteReply to Emily B.
I like how you described both naturalism and romanticism so that they were clearly stated to people so it helped prove or define your point more. I think that both of Crane's writings the Open Boat and Own Story also highlight a few other points which is that when people are in the moment and the here and now they don't necessarily think out every move to have a smooth future so that would be why naturalism is more common today. The example is that when the men start about filibustering it says how "the most stolid brain could contrive to believe that there is not a mere trifle of danger in filibustering" showing that even the most level headed emotion-less person could believe there might not even be the slightest bit of danger in filibustering. Although there is almost always a risk in everything that everybody does but people with a naturalistic mindset don't always look for every crack in the road but rather to choose to go with the flow and see what happens rather than being a worrying worry wort who spends their life trying to find every thing wrong with the world and perhaps even their selves. The people who constantly predict when the world is going to end, those would be the people who are classified as worrying worry wort’s who let the way nature acts and the way the world and atmosphere in general react to normal life effect their life and in essence try to effect or change our lives.
Alleigha C-G.
ReplyDeleteDue to how society is today, in my opinion, naturalism is more meaningful rather than romanticism. We see naturalism in everything from movies to our local news stories. I believe our society today favors naturalism because it gives straight forward facts without sugar-coating any information or making, what some would call, excuses as to why things happen or why things are the way they are. These ideas are often found in romanticism in situations concerning emotions. In movies we often see scenes where it will be raining and a person will be crying and are distraught; in a romantics mind nature, in this case it's the rain, played a role in the reason behind the person that is crying. When it comes to naturalists, however, the weather played no role and had no affect on this action, it was merely a coincidence. With this being said, naturalism provides the life like and everyday situations that we can relate to which peaks our interests and grabs our attention. Furthermore since most movies today are based on naturalistic ideals and we watch these movies for our own entertainment, subliminally we can take what we see and apply it to our lives because it peaks our interest so much. Although I would have to admit our society has adapted to naturalistic ideals, I do believe that at the same time we incorporate romanticism through our personal beliefs whether it be a higher power or just our own superstitions that directs our curiosity to why certain situations happen.
Amber G.
ReplyDeleteIn 2012 I believe that naturalism is more relevant to our lives than romanticism. I think that we look at nature as in differ to us. There are a lot of people who enjoy nature but I don’t really think they go out and look at trees and animals for hours and learn about themselves. We see ourselves as superior to nature. We are destroying everyday by the way we live and most typically don’t stop to think about. Although we aren’t helping nature there are ways it doesn’t help us either. It sometimes acts in unfair ways. For example in open boat nature seems to be working against the men. As they survive one struggle another and things start to look up another struggle comes along sucking all hope from the men. Nature did not care about how hard the men were working or about how tired they were. In the end when the last wave saved them nature was sort of working in an unfair way. The oilier was probably the hardest working one but yet his life was the one who was taken, just doesn’t seem fair. I see this happening today with things like hurricanes, earthquakes and other natural disasters occurring and destroying whole communities and taking hope away from hundreds of people. Nature does not care who you are it just happens. I also thing we show the beliefs of naturalism through the way we think. Society is very lazy today and we would rather be feed the answers than go out and look for them on our own. In school we just read textbooks and believe everything that’s in there. I never really been in a class room like Mr. Keating were he truly forced his students to think for themselves and took them way out of their comfort zones. I think today that we don’t look to nature to answers because there are so many other resources out there for us to use now that just give us the answers instead of us actually having to search for it. Overall I think we express more beliefs of naturalism than romanticism in today’s society.
Arianna T.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion romanticism/transcendentalism is more important to us today. I feel like naturalism was just their way of explaining how things are and how they will be before they had any of the technology that we have today. I don’t think that naturalism is really needed in today’s world, with the technology and knowledge that we have gained, naturalism just seems unnecessary. It may have worked back in the 1800s when they thought that that was the answer or when they just had no other explanation. We now need something as advanced as we are in 2012 and that’s where romanticism fits in. Romanticism from how I interpret it to be that we may have the same roots, all grew up in the same place, treated equally but that doesn’t make us the same. We are still as unique as a snowflake — no two alike and we should keep true to that. With naturalism I fell like its centered around heredity and social environments that you were in that defined your character. There was no you being you, it was you’re the great grandson of Albert Einstein so you must be like this or you’re of a high social class so you must be like that. Naturalism was the wake up call and now that we are awake we need to get our priorities straight spiritually, with nature, or with people using romanticism. The transcendentalist thought that in order to better understand ourselves we need to study nature still holds true today. It works the same way if we want to understand nature; we just need to study ourselves. If we wanted to understand ourselves not through nature, but through the people we surround ourselves with, that would work also. I guess what I’m trying to say is that now that we have the knowledge from naturalism we need to offset that with spirituality, in this case romanticism/transcendentalism.
Ky K.
DeleteI like how you think that we should find ourselves and be ourselves but to change what everyone is use to would be hard. Society has gone on for hundreds of years on naturalistic views, and people think its normal now. So trying to change everyone and yourself to think different is hard if that’s all you’ve known your whole life are the naturalistic ways. Romanticism has you look deep inside yourself to try and find the true you, but to be honest people like simple. Most people want quick and easy, straight to the point, but romanticism makes you think and go deep in your heart. And I don’t think that people do that in society today and I don’t think that it will change. There are a lot of people that struggle to survive and they try to keep their dignity by trying to go to work and support their families to have a good life. People don’t really have the time to dig deep and think from the heart and find themselves. We go off of what society gives us I think because that’s what were accustomed to.
Maddy M.
DeleteIn response to Arianna T.
I like that you talked about how you think that people are viewed based on heredity and the environments around them and that if someone is in a high social class that’s how people define them as a person. I believe society does this to everyone; society creates a standard or "look" almost, and if you don't meet the standards then people sometimes act like you aren't good enough. So I agree with your thoughts about that. I don't agree with when you said naturalism is almost unnecessary because to me naturalism plays a key role in today's everyday life. It keeps times simpler, and states the facts straight forward. Like Ky said, I don’t think people could just switch their thinking when naturalism has always been a part of our lives. It’d be too hard to do and it has become a norm in our society. I also think people like naturalism better because also like Ky said, people have busy lives, and romanticism requires you to take the time to look deep inside yourself and to nature to know more about yourself, naturalism is straight to the point and you can learn through past experiences in your life. Personally, I think I’ve learned more about myself in the 16 years that I’ve been alive by going through my life and experiencing good and bad times. I almost wouldn’t know how to look inside myself or to nature to learn about myself. I think you learn through experience because it teaches you lessons and makes you stronger as a person. I think both romanticism and naturalism are important to today’s society in 2012, but I think naturalism plays a bigger, more important role in our daily lives.
Liam L.
ReplyDeleteOur culture leans heavily towards naturalistic views. In a naturalistic view, everything has an unfortunate outcome. Naturalists could argue that there is no “happy endings”. Popular media such as music and TV shows express the idea that life has an overall, unfortunate ending. The media expresses the idea that we should take advantage of today because tomorrow is a hopeless reality that may or may not occur. Many music artists sing of partying and not thinking about tomorrow because the future has seemingly nothing to offer them. In Kid Rock’s song, All Summer Long he sings, “Sipping whiskey out the bottle, not thinking ‘bout tomorrow…” Kid Rock chooses to live in the present because the future has nothing to offer him. These ideas are not purely naturalistic, as expressed in the movie Dead Poets Society, seizing the day is the main idea of romanticism. Although romantics believe in taking advantage of the present, they do not have the grim outlook on life that the naturalists do. Our society is less romantic because of our hopeless outlook on life.
Another cultural trend that points our society toward naturalistic ideals is our view of the individual. In our society, people are described by their occupation. The transcendental idea of “man thinking” is completely out the window. If someone was to describe me, they would say “he is an engineer”, they would group me into a category of people that I share similar attributes with. My qualities that make me an individual are completely disregarded. Our society focuses mostly on the whole and less on the individual; our society is naturalistic in this way.
Timauntay J.
DeleteIn Response to Liam L.
I agree that in many instances, many songs and movies and all over the media, there are a lot of naturalistic views on "unhappy endings." But to say most is a little far fetched in my opinion, for I believe it is somewhat even. How do economists, business people, and all of the other 'financially smart' people go about life when looking at these two movements? 'Most' will say they are of romanticism, because they invest in the future, they focus on self-improvement in hope of a great life, they think not of the present, but what is to come. But yes, many celebrities can be seen as 'naturalists,' because in 'most' cases they are not financially smart, they blow their money because they have it to throw around and talk to the media about living it big now while they have it, and while they're still alive, "because they do not know if there is a tomorrow," but this 'blinds' them because they do not look into their future and do not focus on self-improvement, but rather self-want. And remember, the celebrities, the media, the stars and the rich only account for a small percentage of the overall picture, so you have to account for the whole when determining if "most" leans one way or not, for "most" of the whole which are not rich, are not celebrities, are not surrounded in nothing but wants and desires, have to focus on self-improvement and ideas that will establish and build a base for them, for what is to come, as they look into the future with high hopes of living as long as they can. Today in age, 2012, we are economically struggling, so the world is of both romanticism and naturalistic views, combining both hopes and the lack of, for a better future, for a better life, and for a better present.
Alex S.
DeleteReply to Liam L.
I agree with you on a few of your points, Liam. Our society does look at a person by his occupation and gives him stereotypes. Even in high school we see the classic jock, nerd, etc. stereotypes and we give people certain attributes as seen fit. This fits in with Naturalistic ideals. But I disagree with you when you talked about how our media portrays bad endings or bad outlooks. Look at almost every Disney movie or sitcoms. They almost always portray a happy ending where everything works out or will be worked out in the near future. In especially a lot of Disney’s animated movies the problem is always solved. In Tangled, Rapunzel figures out what the lights mean and takes her place in her real family. In Wall-E, he saves the plant sample and the humans go back to Earth to try and start over. These are just a few of the many examples from Disney. These movies end with the optimism of Romanticism instead of the Naturalism that you said and I feel they make up a larger majority of the total movies out there. When you were talking about our music I partially agree with what you said. But I’m sure you can find as many positive songs that are optimistic and look out into the future as you can find songs that are negative or have a here-and-now kind of feel to them.
Ben O.
ReplyDeleteI think that it is hard to say whether naturalism or romanticism plays a larger part in 2012. Personally, I believe that they both play a critical role in society today, straight to the point facts, mixed in with religious beliefs, and other general beliefs. I believe that in the stories we read in class that they used both naturalism and romanticism to describe things that they couldn’t explain on their own. Some people use romanticism in 2012 to blame things on nature, maybe the weather ruined plans, many people blame the weather, or ask god, “why me?” but from a naturalists point of view they don’t believe that god has chosen for the weather to interfere with whatever someone had planned that was ruined by the weather. Although I think some people find it nice to be able to blame something, naturalism seems to clearly define life that doesn’t bring in outside opinions and influences. With so many different opinions of influential people in 2012, and with famous people acting as role models for young people, I think that being a “man-thinker” would be more beneficial in today’s society.
Whylie M.
DeleteNaturalism plays a more important role then Romanticism does in 2012. Naturalists may blame Nature on affecting plans they intended to do but while they may focus their difficulties on the fact Nature does not have an interest in their plans; Romanticists believe that everything just happens for a reason. A reason in which God planned for previous activities to end in disappointment. Romanticism is no longer common in today’s world believing everything happens for specific reasons, which is because lately the world has been accustomed to disappointment and disaster. Therefore people do not believe that things happen for a specific reason because what is the reason for constantly being disappointed and having the world continually witness disaster. Many people have devalued the idea of Romanticism and began to believe in Naturalism because it is an easier idea to believe in. Naturalism shows the way people are enslaved in following the rules of society and accepting that Nature will bring difficulties and they have to overcome them in order to survive. Naturalists belief that fitting into society will be the closest way of survival because without Romanticism people will no longer believe in everything happening for a reason. And human beings will start following the ways of Naturalism because they now know working hard is what leads to accomplishment not the belief that whatever happens, just happens because it was suppose too.
Emily R.
DeleteReply to Ben O.
I agree that naturalism and romanticism play almost equal parts in the reality of 2012, and I agree that naturalism can interfere and that people find some sort of blame. It’s just like how my aunt could have her wedding outside, on what seemed like a nice day but then it rained. She was not so happy but obviously as ordinary people we don’t have much control about what happens. Although she blamed it on some poor reason, I agree with your statement that naturalism doesn’t pick and choose whose parade to rain on. However to say that all people could benefit from being a “man-thinker” is merely an understatement and that people just need to realize that they have to be smarter than the concept of naturalism and plan accordingly.
Emily-
DeleteI’m not sure what you mean by people “just need to realize that they have to be smarter than the concept of naturalism and plan accordingly.” Don’t limit your interpretation and understanding of Naturalism to nature being indifferent to humanity. If Crane was writing the story of the sister’s wedding, what would Crane focus on in his story? What would Crane want to exam?
Michelle Z.
ReplyDeleteI believe that naturalism is more common in 2012 because of the fact that people can be noticed and receive possibly even more recognition or notice for doing things. The recognition doesn't necessarily have to be for something good, because typically people see the mistakes people make before the good they have done. People typically assume that those who do such great things could never possibly do anything wrong, which isn't true because there is no person in the world who hasn't made some form of a mistake. Those who are richer or well known are those who are typically talked about and judged and held to a high standard, while those who are less wealthy and unknown are still in our society judged and talked about because of people's ignorance to ask simple questions. This is shown in the Red Badge of Courage by Stephen Crane where Henry rather than ask the tattered man's name continues to call him the tattered man. Henry also demonstrates naturalism in that he talks about whether or not he will make it back home from the front line and continually thinks that the only way to have courage is to become injured even though he fears death. An example from personal knowledge and the most simple learning of naturalism as a child was the story about the tortoise and the hare. The hare has an over abundance of self confidence and believes that he will win the race because of his speed. He obviously wasn't aware of the saying slow and steady wins the race which in turn is true in the story as the tortoise continues to go even when the hare decides he will have time to take a nap and does so. In the meantime the tortoise who hadn't bragged about winning went at his own slow and steady pace and won the race. Essentially what it means is that in today's day and age people young, small, insignificant or significant is noticed and recognized by people and they might not even be aware of it.
-Calese C.
DeleteI agree with Michelle's remark in a way. I agree that Naturalistic beliefs have become more common than when it first started but I still believe that Naturalism and Romanticism are used equally in society today. For example, some views are made more public than others and that is why so many people think that Naturalism is the most common belief today. Romanticism and Naturalism, however, are used on a daily basis whether we recognize that we use it or not. Naturalistic views can be seen anywhere from books to TV shows and so on and so on and that also includes Romanticism as well. The ways we see the world today are based off of both of these views. This is why I think that both are used frequently today and that there are certain ways to make one way seem more popular than the other.
Madelyn I.
ReplyDeleteI would have to say that romanticism is more important in society when compared to realism. Yes, some things in life just happen that we really can’t explain. When something out of the ordinary occurs, people with a realistic point of view see it as just pure luck. The idea that nature really doesn’t care about what people are going through may be true in some cases. But does life really have to be man vs. nature (the universe)? Our society is generally driven by hope. If something bad happens to us, we want to believe that something or someone out there WILL help make things better. All of the pain and struggle that we endure in our lives is not going to waste. Regardless if romantics are right or wrong, our society is comforted by the fact that everything can happen for a reason. Some of the ideas that romanticism possesses include, imagination, emotion, symbolism, and the freedom of expression. One could argue that movies in the 20th century are mostly based off of romanticism, for example, Forest Gump, Titanic, Cinderella, etc. Nature has symbolic meaning in movies as well. Movies are a common interest that our society shares. Considering that romanticism is seen in most common movies, it is safe to say that romanticism affects our society.
Stasi K.
DeleteI agree with Madelyn’s argument that most modern movies do a good job conveying romantic ideas present in today’s society. Although naturalism is also present, romanticism has a larger impact on the viewer because it includes “imagination, emotion, symbolism, and the freedom of expression.” The film Titanic is an excellent example of why romanticism is more meaningful to society. The plot mainly focuses around a naturalistic event of nature carelessly causing an “indestructible” ship full of people to sink, however, the audience is intrigued not by the event, but by the characters’ love for each other and their hope for survival. As Madelyn stated, individuals often find comfort through the belief that everything happens for a reason. The audience’s sympathy for Jack and Rose makes it difficult for them to believe that Jack’s death was a random act of nature, even though this may not be correct it supports the importance of hope in society. The common use of romanticism to overcome conflicts in our lives can be seen in many modern films because the viewer is able to relate to the character’s struggles and use optimism to interpret the ending.
Lukas A.
Delete@Madelyn I.
I agree with most of what you have to say about romanticism and its importance to the mental stability of people. Without romantics, the world would be a sullen place. However, some people wish to see the light, even if it's not as bright as they thought it would be. Some people are forced to see it, like how a late sleeper is dazed by the bright sun as the curtains are quickly tossed to the side to let the morning light rush into the room. Just as how Crane had seen the truth only after several tragedies tore down his wall of romantic ideas of which most people were raised. After the deconstruction of his thoughts, he gathered the bricks and laid a new wall. One that, although wasn't the prettiest thing to look at, was the toughest wall he could lean on for support. In naturalism, there are no expectations, so there are no let downs. People won't expect to get lucky, or hope to catch a break. When there is a tornado, people wouldn't blame anything, they would just pick themsleves up and start the cleanup. We would be come a hardy people, those who could bounce back from most things, and who would be worried of the preparations to save them from life. All this, with only one cost: our innocence. I think that in the end, both naturalism and romanticism should be held as high, for although the world needs to know the truths about nature, it is a good thing to be able to have peace of mind at the end of the day.
Trey D.
ReplyDeleteFrom what has happened in the near past and has continued till the present, romanticism is more meaningful to us. Some people decided to stick with the everyday schedule, while others have gone the extra mile to save, think, and to teach their beliefs on nature. Naturalism is really just a main theme we see every day, therefore we don’t value it as much. With the advancement of technology we have improved communication greatly, and as a result of this, our society has set a focus on more social issues. Socially we are a very naturalistic society; we believe that other social influences change our character. For example, we have always been taught by our legal guardians that we aren’t supposed to be friends with troublemakers our persons with unattractive personal qualities because the way they act will rub off on us. I agree that this is true, but I don’t think that to myself often and appreciate it. It is hard to find something meaningful in the harshness of the reality that is naturalism. In the past, there wasn’t the fully developed and understood human unity that we have today so they used naturalism as a scapegoat so they could say that what happens is almost completely random and uncontrollable. I listened to a speech recently about romanticism and that person’s strong beliefs against naturalism. It was very convincing in the fact that humans always value the things that they rarely do or obtain. When something is rare it has value. With urbanization continuing, true nature disappears and we hardly spend time camping or listening to the wilderness that surrounds us. It is very rare that we take the time to do these things outside of the normal scheduled world, so we learn to appreciate it, and respect it. In 2012, society has accepted the romantic theme but has not embraced it fully, which makes romanticism more meaningful to us now than naturalism.
Kelli K.
DeleteThough naturalism is more common to individuals in their daily lives, do all people really appreciate the romanticism in the world? Yes, there are a large group of people who do truly see the beauty when it is around, but yet, there is still a large portion that do not. With the fast pace in today’s culture and society, not many will take the time to stop and view their surroundings. There is always something to learn and observe no matter where you are. However, taking that time to actually stop and see that beauty is not easy for everyone. Personally, with all of my activities I participate in along with my school work, I find it very hard to stop and just relax to see everything around me. The only time I find myself truly able to observe not only nature but myself is on vacation camping in Minnesota and I know that I am not the only person facing these problems of stress and fatigue. Reality can be very harsh to everyone living within it and feeling the sufferings of it. And that does make the rare understandings of nature more meaningful when ever found. I do agree that romanticism is more powerful and meaningful; however, it is not more common in our dailies lives in this modern day.
Arianna T.
DeleteIn response to Trey D.
I agree with some of the points made in your argument, I think that romanticism is more meaningful to us in 2012. I don’t necessarily think that people decide to stick with their everyday schedule. Naturalism has been with us since the 1800s, I think just kind of programmed in us now, we're so used to the daily schedule now it’s not really a decision whether or not we stick to it but when we do something different I do think that we value it more. When you mention how we value romanticism more than naturalism it makes me think how people treat their old flip phone that everybody has 14 of compared to their new iPhone. Everyone accepted their flip phone and knew everything about it, when there was nothing else, then all these new phones came out we couldn’t wait to get the newest phone, now that we have it there is still so much to learn about it but we still value it more than the old phone. Does my metaphor make sense? Well, what I’m trying to say is that naturalism is old and we know a lot about it so there’s less value, romanticism is new and we’re still learning about it so there’s more value. When you mention it being ‘hard to find something meaningful in the harshness of the reality that is naturalism’, I just think you need to look at it from a different angle, naturalism may suck but from all the trials that you endure from it will make you stronger in the long run.
MiKaella W.
ReplyDeleteI personally believe that both romanticism and naturalism are important to us. They are both used today and will always be used. Romanticism is used less than naturalism from what I have come to notice though. In books and television and movies they use naturalism instead of romanticism, most of the time mainly because I think it is much easier for people to understand and try to relate to. In naturalism things are easier to understand and are not as confusing or complicated. However in many movies they tend to lean on romanticism, I mean everyone loves the dramatic scenes about love or the tragedies that come with them. Romanticism excites the audience and interests them, it gives them a chance to compare and relate to the characters or the plot about their own lives'. Today in movies and shows on the television many use naturalism because it makes us think as persons and makes us think about our life and what it would be like if we were to go through what society shows us that happens to other people in the united states and all over the world. I feel like it would be better if naturalism and romanticism were used both equally.
Hayley M.
ReplyDeleteI believe Naturalism is more meaningful for our generation because we tend to have pessimistic thoughts on our surrounding environment and society. We also have no control over our environment and society, it controls our fate. In Stephen Crane's story, Open Boat, the characters are in the middle of the ocean and just have each other to help survive the events that they face. They face a strong wave and successfully recover from it to soon to discover that there will be another wave just like it. In reality we are faced with problems everyday, once we accomplish one problem expecting a break of some sort we will soon discover there will be another problem as complex as the last one. For example last year in Japan they faced a massive earthquake and immediately after, as they tried to recover, faced the after shock that set off a powerful tsunami. Japan conquered one devastating event, they were then left to conquer another problem right afterwards. We relate more to naturalism because we all face problems everyday that we sometimes have no control over the problem we face so we look to others for support. When facing a problem of nature we all strive to survive the event doing what ever it takes in order to live. No matter how hard we try or our social status or heredity we are extremely weak, human, and powerless when it comes to facing nature. There is no free will when it comes nature since it instead decides for us. Naturalism is more meaningful to our generation because we all are in ways affected by it and we always discuss the past calamities.
Amber P.
DeleteIn response to Hayley M.
I agree with Hayley’s argument of “When facing a problem of nature we all strive to survive the event doing whatever it takes in order to live” because it is very true. In our lives we face issues that are horrible and sometimes dangerous. Our society is more naturalistic therefore we will reduce to degrading behaviors to survive. For example when a parent’s child is in danger that parent will do whatever it takes to make sure their child is safe. Our parents would probably kill for us to be safe because they love us. Another aspect of Hayley’s argument that I like is the ordinary person vs. nature. Hayley mentioned the disasters in Japan and how ordinary people conquered very scary events. The people in Japan don’t have super powers and are normal human beings, but they overcame something very tragic. In naturalism there are heroes that step up and overcome obstacles. The heroes are ordinary and average people. The people of Japan are ordinary people who stepped up and became the heroes. They overcame the obstacles of the earthquake and tsunami. I agree with naturalism being more meaningful to us in 2012 because all aspects of naturalism are in our lives and it’s the way we live.
Lukas A.
ReplyDeleteRomanticism is a wonderful way to live, it lets us love, it brings us together as communities, and it allows us to be able to sleep at night without fear. In my opinion, it or any branching ideas are nothing more than a rainbow in the distance. Sure, you could work arduously without falter to arrive at the sacred touchdown of that rainbow, but once there you realize it was just a mirage. As unfortunate as it sounds, tragedies are frequent and sporadic. Nature is not a being, and it does not do things for a purpose. Our world is governed by the undefined laws of this unpredictable force. However, the beings within nature are not random, but instead pushed by the randomness of nature. Our choices are self-determined in logical ways. In any given situation there is a choice, and these choices are actions of logic. Yes, people can act romantically, but these actions are a decision derived from logical thought. Freud’s theories tell us that thoughts are generated by greed or necessity and then logic is applied to the thought to help us acquire whatever we are wanting. He believes that the brain will turn to extraneous solutions if an obstacle stands in our way. The fact is, all beings will do whatever it takes to reach their goal. These ideas explain how beings are forced into choices and forced to act on them, so therefore logic explains all situations. To answer the question, I believe that for today and always, Naturalism is held higher and higher as we consider ideas such as science and as we further search for answers to our unanswerable questions.
Lukas, there are a lot of big ideas in this response. I appreciate that. Can you make your arguments concrete by providing examples from Crane or the Transcendentalists we have read? Would a Naturalist argue that decisions are always our own choices? Are there forces that are stronger than an individual's will that can be used to also explain the choices that we make? You have pulled Freud into your discussion to illustrate the internal forces that act on a person but what are the external forces that also act on a person?
DeleteClass, any comments for Lukas?
Madelyn I.
DeleteI think Lukas has done some really good thinking with this topic. He made a point that, "...all beings will do whatever it takes to reach their goal". People will possess the pessimistic determination to live and prosper. The main "goals" for realists seems to just be the struggle for life itself, and maintaining their dignity while doing it. Is that really our only motivation? Live, so we don't have to die? I seems as if that's the realists purpose. What does a realist do when they aren't struggling with a tragedy? You said that our choices are made by logic, but what about hope? Hope can drive us to do amazing things. I mean, can there really be no greater explanation when something amazing happens in our life? Is it just pure luck? When people are in a really bad place, aren’t we all comforted by the idea that things will get better? Even if it seems impossible, we are all driven to continue our day, hoping that we really aren’t alone in this. The majority of society is desperate to believe that there is a greater force, looking out for them. Whether this idea of a “greater being” is fact of fiction, the possibility of it is enough hope to motivate society. Nobody wants to be alone. It doesn’t have to be us against the universe. I also think that it’s safe to say that society tries to find “good” in everyone. If this is true, if everyone does possess goodness inside of them, than there is truth in the romantics main idea. One could say that there is a piece of God (goodness) in all of us.
Emily R.
ReplyDeleteBetween romanticism and naturalism, both are obviously used. But in 2012 I believe that naturalism is more commonly used or seen. Such as in movies or television, where most of the characters are leading an everyday lifestyle, of which we are able to relate too. Also seen in our lives, as every day people, we have the pessimistic determinism to lead a normal life much like our parents, and have a family, job, house, etc. As kids most of us thought we wanted to be a pop singer, movie star or professional athlete but after growing up the natural response is to do what‘s easiest. Most people aren’t going to attend college out of state, and most people aren’t going to want to go somewhere else that their friends are not at. Although you can spot romanticism, like the movie stars on commercial’s saying “follow your heart!” however most of us shrug that comment and go on with our day. Naturalism can be seen widely and commonly in the year 2012. Although romanticism can be seen too, naturalism just appears to be more reachable.
Why does Naturalism appear to be more reachable? We reach for goals, is Naturalism a goal? I can see a clear relationship between "following your heart" and Romanticism and self-improvement, but does this same relationship between self-improvement and Naturalism exists?
DeleteTimauntay J.
ReplyDeleteIn today's modern world, both romanticism and naturalism are used in exchange, in varying situations and instances. Some may argue one is used more than the other, while others may feud about which one is more ideal in our new way of life, pertaining to technology and other various advancements over the last few centuries. In the world of technology, inventing and innovating, romanticism as well as naturalism are both 'key factors,' for one derives his/her ideas, his/her thoughts on new technologies from ones individualism, from their freedom and their imagination, for that is romanticism. All around us romanticism is used, for both the good and the bad, such as in movies like Forest Gump. In Forest Gump, even though he was crippled, by sheer will and persevering he was able to run out of his disorder, free from the natural rules that make up our world and our bodies. However, naturalism is used just as much, in and out of the classroom. In the movie 2012, and all of the articles, documents, and foreshadows about the end of the world, we use naturalism as we express how nature and the world will go about its way, whether or not that is good for our race or not. For the world does not see humans as significant. There are many naturalists in the world who believe things have to be scientific, things have to be precise and of the laws of the natural world and physics as such. Especially in designing and developing new technologies, which our race in today's age strives on. Naturalistic inventors and innovators think of ideas and new thinks to create but not from imagination, but rather from what has already been created, what will work based on their natural surroundings, and the 'defined' rules of how nature and this world works. So in determining which movement is more meaningful in today's world, either romanticism or naturalism, one cannot because they are both used in various situations.
Shannon C.
ReplyDeleteIn 2012, I think that Naturalism is more relevant to everyday life. This is commonly reflected through society by way of television, magazines, and other types of media. It is portrayed to our generation that everyone struggles and that’s just the way it is. Romanticism is seen in society also, but sometimes seems almost off limits. Many people can relate to seeing movies with a happy ending, a love story perhaps; in this love story, everyone gets what they want and they live happily ever after. The only problem with this idea seen on the big screen, so many people are used to the idea that it would never happen to them. The romanticism we see not only in movies on the big screen, but also in print media is a way for us to “dream” of what could be. Picking up a magazine at the grocery store and drooling over what other people have in their lives will ultimately make you hopeless. Although these ideas of the dream lifestyle do not particularly fit the characteristics of traditional romanticism, I think that they complement the relevance of naturalism in our daily lives very well. We take a look at these movies, and stars living their perfect lives, and find ourselves wishing that was us. However, most people think that could never happen for them. People tend to have that negative outlook on life, and society is to blame. More and more you hear on the news information of less importance about some issue with our society. This only lets us dwell over the bad aspects in life and never let us see the light in life. We are so dependent on this unimportant information that it takes away from our own lives. This in turn leaves a majority of the people in society today hopelessly living their lives day by day without a purpose to do anything daring or different.
Shannon C.
ReplyDeletein reply to Amber P.
I agree and disagree with what Amber has to say. In today’s society, there are many examples of why nature doesn’t stop for humanity and that humanity is not superior in any way to nature. However, is this all that you can argue? Is nature really a huge part of society today at all? Whether we like it or not, in our society today, you could argue that no one cares what nature has to say. Many people wouldn’t even relate the hard times that they face to nature. I think that our society has created such an image that nature is not important. It’s just there. For most people, it’s the backdrop to their lives full of the stresses of their everyday lives. People’s lives are more about doing what everyone else does. They’d much rather conform then be a person of their own. However, If one person blames the tornado for not respecting their lives, I’m sure that many people would start to say the same thing. So I guess I agree with the fact that naturalism is more important in today’s society, but I having nature as the key point in that argument is something that I can disagree with.